The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

This can't be good:

quote:

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The US is at risk of losing its top-notch triple-A credit rating within a decade unless it takes radical action to curb soaring healthcare and social security spending, Moody’s, the credit rating agency, said on Thursday.

The warning over the future of the triple-A rating – granted to US government debt since it was first assessed in 1917 – reflects growing concerns over the country’s ability to retain its financial and economic supremacy.

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Have to register for the rest of the piece, but that paragraph sums it up pretty well.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/40f3a2be-bfa9-11dc-8052-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F40f3a2be-bfa9-11dc-8052-0000779fd2ac.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2F&nclick_check=1 (http://"http://www.ft.com/cms/s/40f3a2be-bfa9-11dc-8052-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F40f3a2be-bfa9-11dc-8052-0000779fd2ac.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2F&nclick_check=1")

Wow, what an awful link.  Sorry bout that, all.  It's from the Financial Times, in their World section, from Jan 10.

Nothing new....go to the economy topic.....

Busheviks have put us in a bad economy that will be here (not Tulsa right away) for several years.

Municipalities and States are starting to be impacted by the burden of a slowing economy, the credit debacle, and their reckless interference with a free market.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/08ebf454-b183-11dc-9777-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b5df10621.html



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11calif.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/NEWS01/801120442/1008

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080112-9999-1m12finance.html

What shape is your city in???? Are our publicly educated children at risk?

Moodys is probably one of the most powerful entities in the world. Most people dont even know who or what they are. Their descisions can make or break any country in the world.

quote:

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Originally posted by TheArtist

Moodys is probably one of the most powerful entities in the world. Most people dont even know who or what they are. Their descisions can make or break any country in the world.

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Very true.  They have an amazing amount of clout, though some of that has been tarnished by the recent credit debacle.  Turns out they were responsible for rating subprime mortgage vehicles -- just as they rate other financial products -- but their ratings were waaaaay off, and there's a lot of talk about them and other ratings companies being negligent and/or complicit in mis-rating those vehicles.

Other commentary I've seen around the web says again and again that for Moody's to make specific policy predictions about entitlements and to NOT call out other huge budgetary problems (ie. focusing on healthcare and social security, while ignoring the Iraq war's truly massive expense) is pretty irresponsible.  Further, to mention social security specifically is misleading, since almost everyone agrees that with a couple of tweaks, the SS system can remain solvent.

Still, all that said, having Moody's threaten our bond rating is kind of stunning.  It's like someone finally saying a family secret out loud at the dinner table.  We know, we know, our financial situation is precarious and possibly super-awful.  Please don't admit our weaknesses in public again, son, and pass the butterbeans.

I'd like to think this would scare Washington into action.  Not only because it would be an insult to our national pride, but also because it would cost tax payers BILLIONS of dollars and further destabilize the dollar (hurting us economically).

Lets see:

1. The income tax took away transparent taxes, shifted the burden away from most people, and instituted withholding (less complaining if you take it before they have it).

2. The greatest generation promised themselves benefits and left it for someone else to fund it.

3.  The Boomers expanded those entitlements both to their parents for votes and to themselves and again left the funding to their kids.

4. We have emergencies and fight wars and AGAIN leave it to some other time to pay for it.

5. Though a fiscal disaster looms, we continue to spend billions and billions on pet projects.
- - -

If a corporation started a new program and funded it with future profits (debt), expanded said program even as it was failing, then incurred huge debts for other projects - the entire time refusing to plan for the upcoming debt or even address the problem with shareholders:  Moody's would drop them to junk status in short order.

And yet STILL, only Fred Thomson is bothering to discuss entitlements and debt.  Not even a real point of discussion.  
- - -

I seriously doubt the viability of our Republic from time to time.  

a) Most people pay little or no income tax.  They have no financial stake in the matter.

b) Most people don't pay attention.

c) Citizens want their free health care, guaranteed retirement, federal payments if they don't have proper insurance, handouts, and other programs without a thought of who actually pays for it.

d) Senators want their roads, dams, military contracts, and other pork projects.

and on and on and on.  The federal government has become one giant tit, and all the little piggies great and small are struggle to suckle as much as they can.  If this continues the system WILL fail.

Feh. Don't worry, wvu.

Spoonbill insists that the national debt is imaginary. [}:)]

Yes, these times are fraught with peril.

With our currency losing value we face the risk of hyperinflation that could lead to financial collapse.

The Euro is becoming the “safe haven” currency and two of our major lenders China and Saudi Arabia have moved some funds into the Euro.

I’ve never seen the kind of ongoing volatility we’ve had on Wall Street since last summer.

Anyone want to hear my rant about the Republicans being a one trick pony?  Borrow, borrow and borrow.  Yes, they’ve cut taxes and increased borrowing again.

Hey, Cannon, I remember the last time we fixed social security in ’80 or was it ’81, and the dramatic increase in social security taxes we saw then.  Boomers have paid those taxes throughout their working lives.

I haven’t freaked out yet.  Clinton will move us back towards a better looking balance sheet.  Remember her husband’s surplus?

quote:

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Originally posted by rwarn17588

Feh. Don't worry, wvu.

Spoonbill insists that the national debt is imaginary. [}:)]

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Shhhhhh!  Don't tell anybody, but I posted this for him!

quote:

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Originally posted by Hometown
Anyone want to hear my rant about the Republicans being a one trick pony?  Borrow, borrow and borrow.  Yes, they’ve cut taxes and increased borrowing again.

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The real economic difference between the two major parties is democrats tax and spend and republicans borrow and spend.

quote:

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Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I'd like to think this would scare Washington into action.  Not only because it would be an insult to our national pride, but also because it would cost tax payers BILLIONS of dollars and further destabilize the dollar (hurting us economically).

Lets see:

1. The income tax took away transparent taxes, shifted the burden away from most people, and instituted withholding (less complaining if you take it before they have it).

2. The greatest generation promised themselves benefits and left it for someone else to fund it.

3.  The Boomers expanded those entitlements both to their parents for votes and to themselves and again left the funding to their kids.

4. We have emergencies and fight wars and AGAIN leave it to some other time to pay for it.

5. Though a fiscal disaster looms, we continue to spend billions and billions on pet projects.
- - -

If a corporation started a new program and funded it with future profits (debt), expanded said program even as it was failing, then incurred huge debts for other projects - the entire time refusing to plan for the upcoming debt or even address the problem with shareholders:  Moody's would drop them to junk status in short order.

And yet STILL, only Fred Thomson is bothering to discuss entitlements and debt.  Not even a real point of discussion.  
- - -

I seriously doubt the viability of our Republic from time to time.  

a) Most people pay little or no income tax.  They have no financial stake in the matter.

b) Most people don't pay attention.

c) Citizens want their free health care, guaranteed retirement, federal payments if they don't have proper insurance, handouts, and other programs without a thought of who actually pays for it.

d) Senators want their roads, dams, military contracts, and other pork projects.

and on and on and on.  The federal government has become one giant tit, and all the little piggies great and small are struggle to suckle as much as they can.  If this continues the system WILL fail.

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One of my Faves too:

From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

China. . . We're almost ready for you!