|
Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: cannon_fodder on January 16, 2008, 08:58:48 am A TulsaWorld article today was talking about the increased cost of debris removal on account of under estimating the quantity (understandable).
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080116_1_A1_spanc44663 While reading it a couple number caught my eye: quote: quote: So for every dollar being spent cleaning up trees, 53 cents is then spent making sure we qualify for FEMA aid. YADoes ANYONE find that acceptable? Clearly from the cities standpoint it makes sense to spend up to 70% of the cost to make sure we get reimbursed, but it's still insane. Does FEMA reimburse the compliance cost? And whether they do or not - WHAT A WASTE! This is why I say central government is incapable of efficiency and generally want them doing as little as possible. Even if you think they usually do a good and efficient job, clearly they missed the mark here. AND EVEN AFTER ALL THIS, you get massive over runs and waste still coming in from Katrina. ARGH! That's my 53 cents worth anyway. For the love of god, someone tell me I'm wrong. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: sgrizzle on January 16, 2008, 09:16:33 am That is 1.6M to pay people $10/hr to ride behind trucks for 10-12 hours a day. Seems like a lot.
Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: we vs us on January 16, 2008, 09:23:15 am quote: +1 for job creation in an economic downturn! Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: we vs us on January 16, 2008, 09:45:07 am But seriously. I understand that administrative costs are part of any undertaking of that size (and think about it, verification is important so we know that contractors aren't taking advantage of government funds). But yeah, costing roughly half of the actual clean up does seem steep.
As an aside, NPR just finished a three part series on DHS's 5th anniversary (of which FEMA is a part), and just in general, that is one completely and totally effed up organization. Scattered and disorganized, subject to the whims of Congress and the President, needed more than ever and yet unable to be everything to all people and in all places at once. No one ever had the chance/intention of putting everything together smartly when it was being created, so inevitably it just trips over its own bureaucracy when trying to get things done. I usually don't agree with the conservative critique of Big Government, but this is one time when we're on the same page. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: NellieBly on January 16, 2008, 09:56:31 am The monitor literally sits in a running car all day long watching the debris removal. He just sits there for hours at a time? I don't see how this is effective monitoring. Does each truck have one monitor? Can't monitors travel between locations?
I wonder how much they make an hour? Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: Breadburner on January 16, 2008, 09:59:10 am quote: Minimum wage they graduated from OSU...... Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: sgrizzle on January 16, 2008, 10:21:59 am quote: They make $10/hr Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: grahambino on January 16, 2008, 11:36:02 am driving through a neighborhood near my office, i saw a subaru station wagon, backed into a driveway. He had the front end in half the road, down the street from a giant 'PAUL BUNYAN' truck. the dude was asleep, apparently. at first glance, i thought he might have been dead.
Granted it couldve been his lunch break, since it was about that time, but there was a truck down the street picking up limbs. I certainly wouldn't mind some supplemental part-time income if that's alls you gotta do... Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: RecycleMichael on January 16, 2008, 11:46:30 am quote: $10/hr plus all the sticks you can eat. I know I should be worried about government waste and all, but these jobs are adding some income into the local hard-to-keep-employed sector. The feds are paying 75 cents on the dollar and the state is reimbursing 12 and a half cents. These dollars will probably all be spent locally and churned into many other local dollars. A whole lot of people are going to be able to do a little more business in our local stores and restaurants. I am thinking of buying stock in Dollar General and McDonalds. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: YoungTulsan on January 16, 2008, 03:13:47 pm quote: 15 dollars an hour actually Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: sgrizzle on January 16, 2008, 03:40:51 pm quote: Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: Steve on January 16, 2008, 04:53:10 pm I have observed the same thing in my midtown neighborhood, with the monitor sitting in her car and following the workers. After they picked up my debris on Monday, I went out and raked up and bagged all the small stuff left behind; actually it was 5 large lawn/leaf bags of "small stuff." When I was out there, the monitor came up to me and said I didn't have to do that, as they were going to make another pass down the street. I told her I didn't care about that, I just want my front yard as neat & tidy as soon as possible and I can pick the remainder up myself. (And probably do a much more thorough job to my picky satisfaction.)
I would guess that this whole monitoring business is a direct result of the FEMA/Katrina/New Orleans debacle. After that, FEMA is so afraid of any charges of corruption, incompetance, or fraud. And they should be. It is unfortunate that the taxpayers must pay 1.5 times the cost due to incompetance, but I guess that is the way it is with government. I think the cleanup crews have done a pretty good job so far. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: jne on January 16, 2008, 05:09:29 pm quote: Yeah. However,it seems we are probably paying 1.5 mill to protected ourselves from being ripped off for probably a couple-hundred grand. What gets me is, (I understand it)it has to be a 'FEMA approved' contractor to monitor. This cost is insane. Why can't sufficient monitoring be done with less staff? -Maybe a Director (liason to Mayor's office) to coordinate with volunteer groups and public info and such) -an Assistant Director to directly coordinate the clean-up crews. -An Area Coordinator for each of the the 3 zones -an Evaluator in charge of surveying a sample to be sure the job is getting done and to manage reporting requirements - a few administrative people to move information around and maybe staff a complaint line etc. Am I crazy? Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: we vs us on January 16, 2008, 06:00:19 pm quote: The trucks were in our neighborhood in midtown today. Looked like each truck had a driver who also functioned as a crane op, and the monitor car driving behind with two guys in it (one holding the official clipboard). I'd love to know how this gets administrated, though. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: Steve on January 16, 2008, 07:01:09 pm quote: No jne, you are not crazy, and it seems like a horrible waste to me too. But I guess it is the product of government bureaucracy and the aftermath of the FEMA/Katrina boondogle. In my midtown neighborhood 26th & Yale, there is one man on the dumpster truck/crane, and one inspector following. The truck man does all the work, moving the dumpster down the street, and climbing up the ladder and operating the crane to remove debris. The inspector just follows along and sits in their car, making the required reports/observations. I have also noticed that nearly all of the east/west street in my neighborhood have had the first pass of debris removal, but none of the north/south streets have had any pickup yet. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: YoungTulsan on January 17, 2008, 01:38:57 am From what Im told, the job of the monitor is the keep track of how much debris by volume is removed. I wonder why they can't just do this at the dumping sites? Perhaps they need someone watching incase there is some sort of dispute about property damage (like the truck accidentally ran over someone's guilded lawn gnome or some nonsense) ?
Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: cannon_fodder on January 17, 2008, 08:49:13 am Well, I'm as much for protecting yard gnomes as the next guy - but this seems over the top. Seriously, offload the trucks and go "yep, another full truck. That's 12 cubic yard. It took him 45 minutes to collect it, he drove 17 miles. Seems about right. NEXT!"
For $1.5 million I'd give a $1.4 million guarantee it was done perfectly and be willing to pay for discrepancies to that amount. Anyone want in, equal cuts of the government booty. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: we vs us on January 18, 2008, 06:52:47 am The Tulsa World was reading the forum (obviously!) and decided to do some research for us:
quote: Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: cannon_fodder on January 18, 2008, 08:18:30 am News flash!!!
The company hired to do the compliance says it's recommended to hire a company to do the compliance. That's some fine work there Lou. - - - Honestly, I don't know the system. It probably is the right thing to do in the system, spend 1.5mil to save 3mil. Makes sense. BUT what I'm saying is that system sucks. Just seems insane. If it cost 53% to comply with tax laws I'd just have my company send in an extra 25% and blow up the compliance. "You don't want... then to come back and deduct millions of dollars." Well, actually, depending on the number of millions it STILL might be a good deal. Assuming the new estimates of $9,000,000 are correct that gives a compliance cost of $4.77 mil. We if we blew that off and they came back and revoked $4 million in reimbursement we still come out ahead. What a stupid system. What's worse, this man has his life staked on it and will now do everything in his power to protect the system. For better or worse, it's built in and relied on now so it isn't going away. Sounds like government to me. [V] Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: we vs us on January 18, 2008, 08:37:56 am quote: Is that Fargo? Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: cannon_fodder on January 18, 2008, 11:27:19 am The Simpson's. Chief Wiggam has been known to say "That's some fine detective work there Lou." Or something along those lines.
Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: spoonbill on January 18, 2008, 03:54:50 pm Talked to my "Monitor" on Wednesday. Apparently he doesn't drive behind the trucks much. There is about 1 monitor for every 6 to 8 trucks. They have designated check areas where he sits in a parking lot and the full trucks have to drive by and check-in before they unload. He has a clip-board where he gathers the paperwork showing each address they processed. He also has a pen.
He, and many of the other monitors are being put up at the hotel on 51st and Harvard, and spend their evenings at Taboo if you would like to talk to them. His exact quote "Why don't yous guys have total nude in Oklahoma?" It's an excellent example of why you should stay in school. You see. . . a well educated person (GED or equivalent) can sit in a car all day, get paid by the government. And, he can spend that money watching naked ladies till 4a.m. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: we vs us on January 18, 2008, 04:11:27 pm quote: I daresay, sir, that's the Great American Way. The naked lady part, anyway. Though remember, Oklahoma doesn't allow full nude. So we're talking mostly-naked ladies. Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: jne on January 18, 2008, 04:19:02 pm That explains the snoozing monitor that grahambino spotted.
Title: Fema Compliance Cost (Ice Sotrm) Post by: cannon_fodder on January 21, 2008, 08:48:45 am Great. Just great. Now we are really up sh*t creek!
We thought Tulsa was having trouble finding quality workers before. Now these guys will go home and tell everyone that we don't have full nude. Now we'll NEVER attract young educated workers. |