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Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: Conan71 on January 21, 2008, 03:03:50 pm Okay, I don't know how many of you have seen the photo on page 1 of the World this morning or have read his quotes. If I were black, I'd be mad as hell he's gloming on to MLK Day.
MLK was about equality for all American citizens. I don't think this man is ever going to get HB-1804 is not a racial issue, it is a legal issue. Where in the hell was he before all this to try and push for workable immigration solutions instead of being a miserable PITA now? I guarantee we would not hear a peep out of this guy if our immigration problem were coming from the north. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: sgrizzle on January 21, 2008, 07:31:17 pm I watched the photo on page 1 being taken.
"Crowds" is defined as those you see in the picture, and their drivers. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: tim huntzinger on January 22, 2008, 06:53:05 am I am no MLKJR scholar, but there is no doubt if he were alive today he would be on the side of the globalists for his brown-skinned brothers. He was for international justice and his understanding of the Christian social gospel before his American identity before all else. He was so radical he did not advocate violence against Castro, Russia, or North Vietnam, but found it difficult to preach nonviolence to the black power crowds. His call for justice would have encompassed all mankind, not just citizens IMHO.
Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: Hometown on January 22, 2008, 07:51:37 am HB1804 is the latest chapter in Oklahoma’s sad, racist history. Ortega opposes this legislation and is a selfless advocate for human beings that find themselves without many friends. He is aligned with other Tulsans with a conscience like the head of Oklahoma’s Catholic Church and leaders of Tulsa’s Jewish Community.
Before this is all said and done I believe we will see Ortega honored and institutions named after him and Terrill, the author of HB1804, will be reviled in historic texts. We do have a Martin Luther King Freeway. We don’t have a George Wallace High, or a Strom Thurman Library. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: RecycleMichael on January 22, 2008, 09:00:28 am "So I think we are in good company when we break unjust laws, and I think those who are wiling to do it and accept the penalty are those who are part of the saving of the nation."
Martin Luther King, Jr. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: iplaw on January 22, 2008, 09:01:42 am quote: (http://www.ortega.com/graphics/products/grouped/lg_kits.jpg) He's already had taco kits and salsas named after him...what more do you want? Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: tim huntzinger on January 22, 2008, 09:08:06 am Wait, what? An MLK Expressway? Yeh yeh, I know, but I have not once ever heard 244 called by that designation. Shame.
Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on January 22, 2008, 09:13:58 am quote: I totally agree. If Americans never broke laws, the tea would have stayed on the ship on December 16, 1773, no treason laws would have been broken on July the 4th 1776 and a black lady would have quietly moved to the back of a bus on December the 1st 1955. Its not a legal/ illegal issue, it's about questioning if a law is just and should be in place in the first place. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: Conan71 on January 22, 2008, 12:26:02 pm quote: You gotta be ****ting me Si. Does the UK not have some of the most stringent immigration laws on the planet? What is un-just about protecting a country's borders and assets? Most other nations do precisely that. Americans aren't breaking the law, illegal aliens are. Here have an orange, I'm going to eat my apple. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on January 22, 2008, 01:10:25 pm quote: One, the UK actually has fairly free immigration laws. If you live in one of the 25 EU countries you are allowed to move to and work in the UK. I can’t see NAFTA doing that anytime soon. I know of lots of firms that hire people, then ask them if they need to sort them out with work visas and such, it is also possible to stay in the UK if you are in a common law relationship, cohabiting and in a civil partnership with a citizen. So I think its fairly relaxed, but could be more so. Two, what’s unjust about strict immigration controls. Well, there’s lots of takes on it really, you could argue from a libertarian point of view and say it’s my business who I hire and the state shouldn’t be telling me how to run my business. You could venture down the whole Rawls veil of ignorance route, which would strongly argue that immigration was unjust. You could also do it from an economic point of view too, but that’s less about just and unjust. What I was saying was that Americans have broken the law in the past, in fact some of America’s proudest moments where when people decided a law was unjust and they broke it. Saying its illegal and people therefore shouldn’t do it isn’t an argument, you have to say why you should do something. If I was in the 1950’s in the deep south I would have disobeyed every Jim Crow law, I wouldn’t care if I was breaking the law, because in my eyes that law should have never been there and it was morally wrong. I would have also gone to Elmore City and done a little boogie. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: Conan71 on January 22, 2008, 02:10:29 pm There's a major difference between black American citizens who were born in the south disobeying Jim Crow laws and those who were born south of the border claiming citizenship rights to a country they were not born in and they entered illegally.
I would have pretty poor luck myself crossing into Canada or Mexico and expecting citizenship rights of either of those governments. Tipping crates of tea off ships back in the 1700's is a poor justification for an illegal invasion of our borders. Should you eventually immigrate to Tulsa, I will more than welcome you so long as it's done through legal channels. However if you do it illegally or over-stay a visa, don't expect a warm reception. I'd tell you the same thing if you were living in Mexico City. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: guido911 on January 22, 2008, 02:36:51 pm quote: lol Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: iplaw on January 22, 2008, 03:16:32 pm quote:Yeah...almost sounds like another country I know which has these thingies called states... What is the UK's policies towards immigration from north africa or Iran? I bet it's a bit more stringent. BTW, isn't the UK considering banning muslim head dress? How progressive is that... quote:Should business be preempted from violating federal law? By extension, is it the prerogative of a business owner to decide which taxes he feels are just? Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on January 22, 2008, 03:45:56 pm quote: I've been down this road about two years ago with either you or inteller. It went on for pages and pages and got so bad it was locked and then deleted. I'm simply not doing a repeat on it, I'll just accept that people have differing points of view, I don't think anyone approaches this debate without pre-conceived ideas and it just becomes a mud slinging match. As a point of clarification unrelated to the topic, I do not believe the UK has ever seriously considered banned the head scarf. Secondly outside of the EU all immigrants are treated equally unless they have a British grandparent so a North African and North American would be treated the same. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: iplaw on January 22, 2008, 03:59:18 pm quote:The UK currently bans the muslim headscarf in all schools and the practice has been upheld by UK courts. Also, there are many restrictions placed on arab immigrants, for example, an arab student wishing to immigrate to the UK may only apply if there are no qualified EU physicians. In fact, there have been more than 40 individuals who have killed themselves over the UK's stringent immigration policies. One Nepalese man actually set himself on fire in front of a UK customs office. http://www.ncadc.org.uk/resources/selfharm.html Apparently it's not as easy you make it seem... Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on January 22, 2008, 04:14:42 pm quote: The UK doesn’t have a ban on head scarfs, I think you are confusing the UK with either Turkey or France. Some schools have banned them, but they are the tiny minority. To say the UK has banned head scarfs in all schools is a lie. The restriction on doctors is not just for arab doctors, but all doctors from abroad. The claim you made was false. There are as I am aware no additional restrictions placed on arabs to migrate to the UK. These people who killed themselves is very sad and personally I would have let them stay, but they were all failed refugees whose claims did not stand up and were made to leave. Some of the examples you gave had nothing to do with immigration law such as the mentally ill woman who jumped to her death. I’m not nor have I ever held up the UK as an example on immigration, if I reply it is only to clarify the facts. I am not defending the UK either without judgement, I think the deportation of failed asylum seekers is cruel and I think the efforts made by America to integrate refugees is a shining example to the rest of the world. It was however Conan who switched topic from Orta to UK immigration policy. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: KingMutt on January 23, 2008, 03:00:35 pm I do not agree with HB 1804. However, since this summer, I became friendly with an attorney who is active in the Hispanic Community. His opinion of these so-called leaders is not too high. Based upon my own observations, I think they hurt their own cause far worse than the anti-immigration groups.
Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: guido911 on January 25, 2008, 04:53:53 pm Well, who has seen this...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_immigration_crackdown_oklahoma.html Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: Conan71 on January 25, 2008, 06:06:25 pm That's a big crock of **** don't you think Guido? The law didn't kill him. His parents put their own fear of being deported over his well-being.
That AP writer has a gift of hyperbole. Yeah, let's hang that evil Randy Terrill. Title: Reverand Orta Is Crossing The Line Post by: guido911 on January 26, 2008, 08:09:11 am quote: Oh, I agree it is a crock. I posted that link because I find it interesting the lengths those on the opposite side of Oklahoma immigration policy will go... |