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Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: swimtoon on February 01, 2008, 10:07:08 am Has anyone had their child harshly disciplined for a uniform infraction in TPS middle school? My straight A, never in trouble student now has Sat. school because a little bit of his undershirt was showing under his hoody? Anyone think it's crazy to be so harsh on an otherwise great representative of the school?
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: sgrizzle on February 01, 2008, 10:17:50 am Did your child say it was because "a little bit of his undershirt was showing" or the school?
What was the undershirt, just a plain white undershirt? When it comes to discipline, it shouldn't matter if you have A's or F's, rules are the same. Do you think he was treated unfairly for a C student? Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: cannon_fodder on February 01, 2008, 10:25:57 am My son is in TPS and if anything, their discipline has been too lax. He has never had a "uniform infraction" that resulted in anything more than a note home saying "can no longer wear pants with outside pockets." Or whatever.
I'm guessing your snow flake is telling a different version of the story. Kids have a tendency to make themselves the victim in the story. I find it hard to believe and out of character that TPS would hand out Saturday school for such a thing. FYI, my son is in elementary school, perhaps it is stricter or a reoccurring problem or a sudden point of emphasis? It just doesn't match what I see with my nearly straight A always in trouble boy (a dichotomy, I know). Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2008, 10:31:22 am quote: At my child's school (not TPS) my daugher can get sent home if she does not have a belt on. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: swimtoon on February 01, 2008, 10:34:52 am My son was told the other day that from now on if they get in trouble for anything it's Sat. school, period. I don't believe that I've been sent anything stating any changes in the way discipine was handed out. I will be hunting down the handbook today. He was devestated that he got in trouble. He never gets in trouble. His teachers at parent-teacher conferences said that "if only all their students were like him". So, for being a good student and just not noticing that some of his undershirt was showing he goes to Sat. school. His dad likened it to having a tail light out and don't know. Then let's say a cop pulls you over and you go straight to jail. Come on! All I ever hear is the uniforms are required for the safety of the children. I don't think his white t-shirt was going to jump out and bite anyone.
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: cannon_fodder on February 01, 2008, 10:48:13 am 1. Call the school and get the story. See what he really did.
2. If the policy is Saturday school for untucked shirts, so be it. Seems doubtful that a public school would go to such lengths. My private school had detention for shirt out, no belt, etc. - but it seems doubtful at a public. If they are, kudos. Kids get away with too much today anyway. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: swimtoon on February 01, 2008, 01:08:46 pm I just spoke to the principal about this. Yes I can see the point that it's the rules and that it doesn't matter if he's a straight A student or not. My problem is this is maybe the second time this year that his undershirt was not tucked in and he goes to sat. school. I was also told that it doesn't matter what the infraction is, they go to Sat. school. I would like to know what the circumstances were that they would send every child to Sat. school no matter how serious the infraction. Is that really fair to the kids who may have just forgotten to tuck after possibly using the restroom compared to the kid who intentionally breaks the rules.
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: Breadburner on February 01, 2008, 01:25:51 pm It's not the end of the world....Get over it....You best be teaching him some skills on how to deal with things such as this....Life is going to be full of them......
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: swimtoon on February 01, 2008, 02:02:17 pm So it would be ok with you if the new law was that no matter the traffic violation you went to jail? Broken tail light or DUI, go to jail. I don't think I want to teach my child to just "get over it".
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: cannon_fodder on February 01, 2008, 02:11:40 pm I agree swim, it sounds a bit harsh. Not the end of the world, but an equal punishment for shirt-not-tucked-in and telling a teacher to "get bent" seems strange. If nothing else, it seems the effort to enforce the former in such manner would not be justified (as opposed to a "tuck it in now" sit and wait to annoy the kid).
But, the toast master is correct. It is not really an issue worth instilling your child with a sense of angst over. You take up the fight if you wish, but tell your kid to just show up and be polite. My 2 cents anyway. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: restored2x on February 01, 2008, 02:15:38 pm It's not jail - it's saturday school. If it is that painful for him - he'll probably never have another infraction.
As a parent, my only concern would be that the rules are enforced equally for everyone. If that's the case - whatever. Do saturday school and forget about it. If not, you have a valid complaint. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2008, 03:16:24 pm File a lawsuit. CF, you take plaintiff work?
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: cannon_fodder on February 01, 2008, 04:16:01 pm I do business & compliance work, while I have had to be on the plaintiffs side it is not what one would call plaintiffs work.
And by the way swimtoon, welcome to Tulsa Now! Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: swimtoon on February 01, 2008, 04:32:40 pm Thank you for the welcome! Sorry I'm just a little perturbed about all this. Also, I believe that it's lawsuits that put us in the position we're in now. If the school system didn't have lawsuits to worry about they could actually discipline the kids who don't follow the rules.
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: TheArtist on February 01, 2008, 04:42:44 pm One thing to consider is that if the rule is "no untucked shirt" or whatever. If one kid gets away with it, even accidentally, and the other kids see that..."well he had his shirt out the other day! Why should I get in trouble for it?" there goes your discipline and sense of fairness.
It reminds me of the NY city thing when they started getting everyone for even small things, like jay walking, people threw a fit about it but soon the crime rate plummeted.(yes I know that wasnt the only reason). Its now safer in NY city than Tulsa. If you get em with the small stuff it sends a signal and draws a line, creates a different social context, in which the more serious infractions are all the more shocking and less frequent. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: Shavethewhales on February 02, 2008, 12:01:03 am So what is the moral of this story in relation to the students involved? Is it that life is full of harsh rules that one must always follow to the beat or be brutally punished? Some have said that it is, but I'd like to think that those people shouldn't be in charge of someone else's future.
Meh, it's pretty sad when you have to choose between a school where all the children are drilled into the ground with regulations or one where the kids are wild animals. I wish more school administrators would just find a moot point and kick out trouble makers rather than locking down schools with nonsense - I for one would have a hard time learning in a place where I was always watching my back so that I didn't fudge up something stupid like my shirt collar being out of place. Just my 2 cents for the day. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: mr.jaynes on February 02, 2008, 09:45:52 am I think, for my time, Tulsa Public Schools were by far more relaxed than Broken Arrow Schools-which is one of the many reasons I'd transferred out of that district. As for school uniforms, a good case could be made for why they are necessary, but the effectiveness of such a policy is something I would have to be sold on before I'd buy into it wholeheartedly. I don't see the necessity of nigh-draconian enforcement of those rules.
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: guido911 on February 02, 2008, 10:44:29 am quote: Good to know... Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: TheArtist on February 02, 2008, 11:22:27 am quote: Is it really so brutal to keep ones shirt tucked in? Is it a death sentence to go in on a Saturday? Puleeeze. "Life full of harsh rules"? I would like to have seen you forget to take out the trash at my house when you were a kid, or miss a spot when you dusted or vacuumed the house. I am not even going to tell you about the time I made a "C!" in math and the hell I had to pay for that lol. All those harsh rules about sitting up straight, combing your hair, brusing your teeth, wearing matching socks, holding your fork right, dont yell, say yes mam no mam, never ask a lady how old she is "boy I got a beating for that one once lol", no hitting? hmmm?, clean your plate, wait your turn, be on time .... how could any human being possibly turn out all right with such an endless litany of harsh rules foisted on them like that? And the punishments... more chores, being grounded, a spanking, a lecture, lose out on an outing or a treat, "or some various combination of the above said lol". As for following the beat. Thats part of "playing the game" of life. Being clever enough to be unique and win the game...within whatever rules you run into, now thats a life habit worth learning. As for the trouble makers. If we were either willing to put in the effort or the money to say have a school or special classes just for the "trouble makers" that might help. But if you kick them out, well in many instances they dont even want to be in school and their parents dont really care either. I would rather figure out some way to get them educated so they can get a real job someday. But, we dont seem to want to go to that effort so we are stuck in this middle ground trying to figure out how to deal with all types of students jumbled together. Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: buck on February 02, 2008, 09:18:15 pm TPS has made it pretty clear this year about having shirts tucked in. Middle school has to have their undershirt tucked in under their uniforms, and high schoolers have to have shirts tucked in too although they don't have uniforms. As far as Saturday Schools that does seem a bit much, usually it is just a warning unless they are a habitual offender. At Rogers earlier this year a group of students walked out in protest of this policy. I've heard that TPS is looking at high schoolers having uniforms. I was talking to a guy in OKC and he said OKCPS has high school uniforms, and of course the private and charter schools already do this.
Title: Tulsa Schools Post by: cannon_fodder on February 04, 2008, 08:42:34 am 1. They can't kick out trouble makers thanks to Federal mandated universal education. Well, at least they have made it difficult to do so. And as Artist indicated, just kicking them out would not serve us well in the long run.
2. Uniforms rock. The kids look nice, it's easier and cheaper for parents, and easier for the kids for that matter. If it has any effect on discipline at all - it's just gravy. 3. Lists are always better with more than 2 points. |