http://newsok.com/article/3215709/
Devon plans downtown skyscraper
Steve Lackmeyer
The Oklahoman
Devon Energy Corp. is pursuing plans to build a new "iconic" downtown corporate headquarters #65533; one that would be the tallest building in Oklahoma City.
In an exclusive interview with The Oklahoman, Devon Chief Executive Officer Larry Nichols also confirmed he resigned from the board of the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority because the city agency owns the proposed tower site.
In response to interest expressed by Devon Energy, Urban Renewal is set to issue a request for development proposals at next week's meeting for the old Galleria parking deck just north of the Myriad Gardens.
"In talking with experts and engineers, we're looking at something in excess of $350 million," Nichols said. "We're talking about something that matches MAPS I."
With 1,350 employees based downtown, Nichols said the company needs to move forward with construction of a new headquarters that he hopes can be completed within four years. He expects 2,000 people will move into the new tower when it is completed.
"Devon has recognized for some time that we need to consolidate into one building," he said. "We now have employees in five different buildings. There are obviously inefficiencies in that."
Nichols said Devon has yet to hire an architectural firm, though there have been "extensive conversations" with a potential candidate.
He estimates the building will span more than 1 million square feet. But when asked the potential height of the building, he could only cite the size of the floor plans. By dividing 1 million square feet by the proposed floor size, the height will be at least 37 stories.
Currently, the tallest building in Oklahoma City is downtown's 36-story Chase Tower.
"To have 1 million square feet, it will probably be the tallest building downtown," Nichols said. "That's not the goal #65533; I don't care about having the tallest building or not. I do care that it be an iconic building, that it be distinctive building. It will change the skyline downtown, and we want to build a building that everyone will be proud to have in Oklahoma City."
While he has toured buildings in major metropolitan areas including New York and Washington, Nichols could not single out a particular skyscraper as a personal favorite.
"I wish there were a building I could say, 'Go build that,'" Nichols said.
But Nichols does have some basic ideas as to what he does and does not want in a new corporate headquarters. He doesn't want the sort of windswept plazas that often are desolate around some of the downtown Oklahoma City towers built in the 1970s.
But he does want a large public space #65533; a large enclosed atrium with cafes, a large conference center, and an enclosed garden.
"We want a fairly large distinctive atrium that would be unlike anything that exists in Oklahoma at the moment," Nichols said.
He also wants to explore opening a never-completed tunnel that connects the Galleria parking deck to the gardens, and he hopes to somehow connect to The Underground pedestrian tunnels.
But before any of this can become reality, Devon must first respond to Urban Renewal's request for development proposals. Nichols isn't legally required to resign from his board seat, which he had held since he was first appointed by former Mayor Ron Norick. Nichols said he insisted on resigning to avoid any appearance of impropriety.
If selected as the developer for the site, Devon must still negotiate parking arrangements with the city for the City Center Garage. Nichols said the discussion would likely include adding floors to the west City Center garage, which opened two years ago. The tower would also have underground parking.
Urban Renewal Executive Director JoeVan Bullard called the proposed tower the largest single development in the agency's history.
"What a great, great day this is," Bullard said. "But there are always two sides to this story, and Larry not being an Urban Renewal commissioner any longer is really saddening. He has served admirably for 20 years. He's absolutely the best example of a corporate citizen willing to take on the responsibility to serve on this voluntary board, and he has been wonderful."
Hopefully it will be a skyscraper, but remember a skyscraper is 500' or more. They have 1 now "Tulsa has 4". Similar number of floors does not always add up to similar heights. Regardless 37 stories is a good catch.
May be a while, 10-15 years, before Tulsa sees a new highrise or skyscraper. 2 possibilities, Helmerich and Payne builds their new headquarters "though they seem to have nestled in nicely downtown from their spot by Utica Square", BOK consolidates some of their many offices spread about town into a new class A building downtown.
They have a 36 story building over 500'? they got 12' ceilings?
I thought they were trying to oneup us, but really, it doesn't sound like it will be that huge. 2,000 people can fit in a pretty moderate sized building.
Well there goes their lead in downtown occupancy rates!
Congrats to OKC. This is really good news for them and probably at least in part a result of their continued efforts to make downtown OKC livable. I hope we can follow their example in that regard.
Top indicator for the oil markets?
Yeah, this is really cool for OKC. I certainly hope oil prices don't suddenly drop two years from now, or they may have a OneOK Tower situation, where a planned 80-story tower turned into a 20-story one.
I can't wait to see the design!
Actually, The Artist, from what I understand, a skyscraper is 400' or more by engineering standards. I could be wrong, so I will double check. If it is 500 feet, then you are correct on your count. If it is 400 feet, then OKC has 4 skyscrapers, Tulsa has 7 or 8, I believe.
Regardless, I am very exited about this, especially since Devon wants to make this building a landmark icon.
I can't find any real defining line, but here it is no matter than height you use:
500ft+ Tulsa 4 OKC 1
400ft+ Tulsa 6 OKC 4
300ft+ Tulsa 10 OKC 9
200ft+ Tulsa 16 OKC 16 Bartlesville 4
100ft+ Tulsa 29 OKC 17 Bartlesville 5
"The end is near....."
Jack Bates and Charlie Thornton
From Wikipedia...
"A loose convention in the United States and Europe now draws the lower limit of a skyscraper at 150 meters (500 ft).[1] A skyscraper taller than 300 meters (984 ft) may be referred to as supertall. Shorter buildings are still sometimes referred to as skyscrapers if they appear to dominate their surroundings.
The somewhat arbitrary term skyscraper should not be confused with the slightly less arbitrary term highrise, defined by the Emporis Standards Committee as "...a multi-storey structure with at least 12 floors or 35 meters (115 feet) in height....:"
In this day and age where there are many typical apartment/condo buildings of 500' or more and its becoming ever more routine to see 1000' plus and now even 2,000' plus buildings. 500' is becoming more and more the lowest acceptable limit to reasonably be called a skyscraper. The other informal "we will let ya have it" definition is a tall building that dominates its surroundings.
Wanna bet it ends up like the ONEOK bldg, only half built?
Speaking of which, when are they gonna finish putting the rest of the floors on that building?
quote:
Originally posted by Kenosha
Wanna bet it ends up like the ONEOK bldg, only half built?
Speaking of which, when are they gonna finish putting the rest of the floors on that building?
Bingo you beat me to it....Cities Service....
Smells like Enron to me, complete with golden parachutes for the CEOs in case of collapse.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I can't find any real defining line, but here it is no matter than height you use:
500ft+ Tulsa 4 OKC 1
400ft+ Tulsa 6 OKC 4
300ft+ Tulsa 10 OKC 9
200ft+ Tulsa 16 OKC 16 Bartlesville 4
100ft+ Tulsa 29 OKC 17 Bartlesville 5
Awsome! We win!
Lets have a day of celebration!
I propose:
"Ours is bigger than yours day"!We all have to dress like this:
(http://llamabutchers.mu.nu/spaceballs.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Smells like Enron to me, complete with golden parachutes for the CEOs in case of collapse.
unlike Enron, Devon isn't selling bull****.
The only way Devon and others like them go belly up is if everyone starts burning wood to keep warm.
If Devon wanted to they could probably build the building with cash only.
I think this is all BS though. We don't need big buildings.....iconic or not. We have plenty already. get vacancy rates down to 15-12% and then start thinking about building capacity. Once you start having a sustained healthy ecosystem like that you can start popping up buildings like Houston.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Smells like Enron to me, complete with golden parachutes for the CEOs in case of collapse.
unlike Enron, Devon isn't selling bull****.
The only way Devon and others like them go belly up is if everyone starts burning wood to keep warm.
If Devon wanted to they could probably build the building with cash only.
I think this is all BS though. We don't need big buildings.....iconic or not. We have plenty already. get vacancy rates down to 15-12% and then start thinking about building capacity. Once you start having a sustained healthy ecosystem like that you can start popping up buildings like Houston.
Enron is a bad example, but Cities Service isn't.
Devon has long been rumored to be a buyout target. This building easily could end up like the Oneok Building which is now 17 floors instead of 60 because Cities Service was bought out during construction.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I can't find any real defining line, but here it is no matter than height you use:
500ft+ Tulsa 4 OKC 1
400ft+ Tulsa 6 OKC 4
300ft+ Tulsa 10 OKC 9
200ft+ Tulsa 16 OKC 16 Bartlesville 4
100ft+ Tulsa 29 OKC 17 Bartlesville 5
Awsome! We win!
Lets have a day of celebration!
I propose:
"Ours is bigger than yours day"!
We all have to dress like this:
(http://llamabutchers.mu.nu/spaceballs.jpg)
We tie if you use the 200' measure.
I was actually intrigued by the numbers. The fact that Bartlesville is such a strong third in Oklahoma when it comes to tall building surprises me a little.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Smells like Enron to me, complete with golden parachutes for the CEOs in case of collapse.
unlike Enron, Devon isn't selling bull****.
The only way Devon and others like them go belly up is if everyone starts burning wood to keep warm.
If Devon wanted to they could probably build the building with cash only.
I think this is all BS though. We don't need big buildings.....iconic or not. We have plenty already. get vacancy rates down to 15-12% and then start thinking about building capacity. Once you start having a sustained healthy ecosystem like that you can start popping up buildings like Houston.
They may want more of their employees in one building for various reasons, including efficiencies. It may be that there is not a single building downtown, or even 2, with enough of the class A quality office space they want. Having a bunch of beat up, old out of date, run down buildings that would probably cost more to update than to build new, may not be their thing. Plus "its not their job to worry about manipulating vacancy rates".
Enron and Devon synonymous...you're kidding right?
They have a 36 story building over 500'? they got 12' ceilings?
Chase tower has a huge first floor lobby and the top 5 floors are at least 15 to 20 feet in height. The top 2 floors are for the Petroleum Club. This why the tower is 36 floors but 500 feet high.
quote:
Originally posted by okcpulse
They have a 36 story building over 500'? they got 12' ceilings?
Chase tower has a huge first floor lobby and the top 5 floors are at least 15 to 20 feet in height. The top 2 floors are for the Petroleum Club. This why the tower is 36 floors but 500 feet high.
Thanks!
No problem :) I can't wait to come back to Oklahoma for vacation next month. Five days in OKC for my family and 4 days in Tulsa for my wife's family. I need a break from Texas.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
They have a 36 story building over 500'? they got 12' ceilings?
the Midcon tower is only 36 floors and is 513 feet. But the First Place Tower across the street is 41 floors and 516 feet.
This new building at 37 floors will likely be between 500 and 550 feet, at most. I don't see them going bigger, a million square feet of space is a ton of space for only 2,000 employees. The Williams Communication was planned for 4,000 employees in 750,000 square feet. And it's not like downtown Oklahoma City can take a bunch of new speculative space with a vacancy rate already of more than 25%. Devon is already going to be vacating a lot of space to get into this building.
Depending on the type of building it could go higher. If the building is larger at the base and gets smaller towards the top and has a spire... it could top the BOK tower height wise. They are saying they want an "iconic" building and are willing to spend 350million or more, and that will get you a good chunk of building. From what I hear so far it sounds though that it may have quite a large footprint. Iconic doesnt have to be tall or "tallest". I would rather them do something really spectacular and not as tall versus tall and bland. Quality over quantity. Something that is truly iconic, a stunningly unique and beautiful structure that is instantly recognizable the world over. Something that would give Oklahoma a snazzy, positive image. Thats something worth shooting for.
http://www.newsok.com/article/3286266/
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080820_1_OKLA844602
Tallest in Oklahoma, 925 ft.
Have they actually done engineering on this?
Going tall is one thing but that means every floor has 18foot ceilings.
Not to mention, they were planning on spending $350M, now it's $750 but it looks like comparable facilities are more in the Billion range.
More power to them, I just think they may be a bit over-reaching.
Just hope the price of oil stays above $100.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Depending on the type of building it could go higher. If the building is larger at the base and gets smaller towards the top and has a spire... it could top the BOK tower height wise. They are saying they want an "iconic" building and are willing to spend 350million or more, and that will get you a good chunk of building. From what I hear so far it sounds though that it may have quite a large footprint. Iconic doesnt have to be tall or "tallest". I would rather them do something really spectacular and not as tall versus tall and bland. Quality over quantity. Something that is truly iconic, a stunningly unique and beautiful structure that is instantly recognizable the world over. Something that would give Oklahoma a snazzy, positive image. Thats something worth shooting for.
But don't you know it's really been a craw in their teeth that they don't have the tallest building in the state. If you read some of OKC forums, that really just jumps right out at you. They're all about making sure they have the tallest building, which really cracks me up.
I don't care for the design, myself. Too much glass, and it will stick out like a sore thumb in their downtown. The difference between our arena and this thing is that this thing, in the flat land that is OKC, can be seen from the Turner Turnpike exit...the BOK Center, while it will be prominent, isn't the tallest building.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Going tall is one thing but that means every floor has 18foot ceilings.
The only way it could have 18ft ceilings is if the floors themselves have no thickness. 18ft is the floor-to-floor height. In a modern highrise, the distance from the floor of one floor to the celing below can be 6-8 ft to account for structure, mechanical and communication systems. 18ft floor-to-floor is fairly standard and not unusal.
But thanks for playing.
When can we begin construction on a few extra floors atop the BOK tower?
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Going tall is one thing but that means every floor has 18foot ceilings.
The only way it could have 18ft ceilings is if the floors themselves have no thickness. 18ft is the floor-to-floor height. In a modern highrise, the distance from the floor of one floor to the celing below can be 6-8 ft to account for structure, mechanical and communication systems. 18ft floor-to-floor is fairly standard and not unusal.
But thanks for playing.
18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual, if not an outrageous waste of space. There's no way this building has that.
The 925 feet includes the 6-story atrium and architectural details. There's where your discrepancy lies.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Going tall is one thing but that means every floor has 18foot ceilings.
The only way it could have 18ft ceilings is if the floors themselves have no thickness. 18ft is the floor-to-floor height. In a modern highrise, the distance from the floor of one floor to the celing below can be 6-8 ft to account for structure, mechanical and communication systems. 18ft floor-to-floor is fairly standard and not unusal.
But thanks for playing.
18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual, if not an outrageous waste of space. There's no way this building has that.
The 925 feet includes the 6-story atrium and architectural details. There's where your discrepancy lies.
Even if the atrium was 100ft tall, that is still 18, almost 19ft per floor,
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Going tall is one thing but that means every floor has 18foot ceilings.
The only way it could have 18ft ceilings is if the floors themselves have no thickness. 18ft is the floor-to-floor height. In a modern highrise, the distance from the floor of one floor to the celing below can be 6-8 ft to account for structure, mechanical and communication systems. 18ft floor-to-floor is fairly standard and not unusal.
But thanks for playing.
18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual, if not an outrageous waste of space. There's no way this building has that.
The 925 feet includes the 6-story atrium and architectural details. There's where your discrepancy lies.
Even if the atrium was 100ft tall, that is still 18, almost 19ft per floor,
And 633 square feet per employee.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Quote18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual,
Prove it, skippy.
Crap! What is this one going to cost us in ideas to beat them again?
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Quote18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual,
Prove it, skippy.
Why don't you? Cite some examples. Or is it harder to dismiss a general statement like that with mere fact?
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Quote18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual,
Prove it, skippy.
Why don't you? Cite some examples. Or is it harder to dismiss a general statement like that with mere fact?
Dam social club around here
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Quote18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual,
Prove it, skippy.
You've got to be kidding me (skippy?). 18' floor-to-floor is absurd and would only be necessary for industrial laboratories or hospitals.
Standard has always been more like 12'. I have heard of like 13'9" for really tech-intense uses, which I supposed Devon might be. It's a lot more expensive on the front end but saves future costs to have tall floors.
But 18'? That's a joke.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Quote18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual,
Prove it, skippy.
You've got to be kidding me (skippy?). 18' floor-to-floor is absurd and would only be necessary for industrial laboratories or hospitals.
Standard has always been more like 12'. I have heard of like 13'9" for really tech-intense uses, which I supposed Devon might be. It's a lot more expensive on the front end but saves future costs to have tall floors.
But 18'? That's a joke.
Ok then. Education time.
1st off...here is a handful of floor-to-floor heights in high-rises in both Tulsa and OKC:
1927 Philtower 14ft
1931 320 S. Boston 18ft (including spire)
1931 First National 13ft
1931 City Place 13ft
1967 Bank of America 13ft
1971 West 7th 14ft
1972 BOK (OKC) 19ft
1971 Chase Tower 14ft
1973 First Place 13ft
1976 BOK 13ft
1980 Mid America 14ft
1982 Union Plaza 14ft
1982 Oklahoma Tower 14ft
1984 Leadership Square 14ft
1984 Valliance Bank 15ft
And if you look outside Oklahoma you will find that Somebody already did this for me (//%22http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=250359%22)
FYI: 18ft is about 5.5 meters
18ft may be a bit high, but it is certainly not excessive nor unusual.
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Quote18ft median occupied floor-to-floor would be highly unusual,
Prove it, skippy.
You've got to be kidding me (skippy?). 18' floor-to-floor is absurd and would only be necessary for industrial laboratories or hospitals.
Standard has always been more like 12'. I have heard of like 13'9" for really tech-intense uses, which I supposed Devon might be. It's a lot more expensive on the front end but saves future costs to have tall floors.
But 18'? That's a joke.
Ok then. Education time.
1st off...here is a handful of floor-to-floor heights in high-rises in both Tulsa and OKC:
1927 Philtower 14ft
1931 320 S. Boston 18ft (including spire)
1931 First National 13ft
1931 City Place 13ft
1967 Bank of America 13ft
1971 West 7th 14ft
1972 BOK (OKC) 19ft
1971 Chase Tower 14ft
1973 First Place 13ft
1976 BOK 13ft
1980 Mid America 14ft
1982 Union Plaza 14ft
1982 Oklahoma Tower 14ft
1984 Leadership Square 14ft
1984 Valliance Bank 15ft
And if you look outside Oklahoma you will find that Somebody already did this for me (//%22http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=250359%22)
FYI: 18ft is about 5.5 meters
18ft may be a bit high, but it is certainly not excessive nor unusual.
Education time? I love it--allow me. (After this, I'm done--these message board pissing matches get wearisome. I don't start them, but I finish them.)
Floor-to-floor height is an industry term that denotes the median space between occupied floors in a building. http://standards.emporis.com/?nav=realestate&lng=3&esn=77849
When you play your math games to come up with height per floor, you're just applying stated floors to stated height of building without describing how the two interact, e.g., atrium, presentation floors, base parking structures, and architectural details.
My guess is that this building will have 10' ceilings on most of the offices (standard lately; used to be 9' though). They'll probably tack on another 3'6"-4' for ducts and conduits. The lower and upper floors won't conform to this, but it's a likely description of how they'll construct a standard floor in the high-rise.
Get off the little skyscraper forums and get into the real world of construction and real estate. Shop around for some commercial space in Uptown Dallas, get "educated," and then come back and see us.
Skippy.
/internet snark
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Education time? I love it--allow me. (After this, I'm done--these message board pissing matches get wearisome. I don't start them, but I finish them.)
Floor-to-floor height is an industry term that denotes the median space between occupied floors in a building. http://standards.emporis.com/?nav=realestate&lng=3&esn=77849
When you play your math games to come up with height per floor, you're just applying stated floors to stated height of building without describing how the two interact, e.g., atrium, presentation floors, base parking structures, and architectural details.
My guess is that this building will have 10' ceilings on most of the offices (standard lately; used to be 9' though). They'll probably tack on another 3'6"-4' for ducts and conduits. The lower and upper floors won't conform to this, but it's a likely description of how they'll construct a standard floor in the high-rise.
Get off the little skyscraper forums and get into the real world of construction and real estate. Shop around for some commercial space in Uptown Dallas, get "educated," and then come back and see us.
Skippy.
/internet snark
That's rich. The big bad expert is "going to finish it". I doubt that will be your last post responding to me.
I have been educated. I spent many years in school and graduated with a degree in architecture. I have designed more than one high-rise.
My only issue here is that posters here think that somehow Devon is trying to build a tower so much higher than the BoK just to spite Tulsa. And that Devon is using a completely excessive floor-to-floor height to make that possible. My point is that is wrong. 18ft is not unusal. And that point has be not been disproven. I have numbers, you have nothing.
Speaking of "educated"...
I might also add that I just did the math instead of relying on the mathematically challenged poster (sgrizzel) here. The Devon tower won't be 18ft flr-2-flr. If you subtract the 35 ft lobby and the 60 ft crown you are left with 830. Divide that by 53 and you get 15'-6" floor-to-floor, not 18 or 19. Duh.
So..yea...pretty sure I'm done.
Oh...and this might help. I found it on the OKC site.
cowtowners (//%22http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/13866-devon-tower-11.html#post163045%22)
building section (//%22http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/devon_tower/?action=view¤t=presskit_11_towrcrosssection.jpg%22)
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Education time? I love it--allow me. (After this, I'm done--these message board pissing matches get wearisome. I don't start them, but I finish them.)
Floor-to-floor height is an industry term that denotes the median space between occupied floors in a building. http://standards.emporis.com/?nav=realestate&lng=3&esn=77849
When you play your math games to come up with height per floor, you're just applying stated floors to stated height of building without describing how the two interact, e.g., atrium, presentation floors, base parking structures, and architectural details.
My guess is that this building will have 10' ceilings on most of the offices (standard lately; used to be 9' though). They'll probably tack on another 3'6"-4' for ducts and conduits. The lower and upper floors won't conform to this, but it's a likely description of how they'll construct a standard floor in the high-rise.
Get off the little skyscraper forums and get into the real world of construction and real estate. Shop around for some commercial space in Uptown Dallas, get "educated," and then come back and see us.
Skippy.
/internet snark
That's rich. The big bad expert is "going to finish it". I doubt that will be your last post responding to me.
I have been educated. I spent many years in school and graduated with a degree in architecture. I have designed more than one high-rise.
My only issue here is that posters here think that somehow Devon is trying to build a tower so much higher than the BoK just to spite Tulsa. And that Devon is using a completely excessive floor-to-floor height to make that possible. My point is that is wrong. 18ft is not unusal. And that point has be not been disproven. I have numbers, you have nothing.
Speaking of "educated"...
I might also add that I just did the math instead of relying on the mathematically challenged poster (sgrizzel) here. The Devon tower won't be 18ft flr-2-flr. If you subtract the 35 ft lobby and the 60 ft crown you are left with 830. Divide that by 53 and you get 15'-6" floor-to-floor, not 18 or 19. Duh.
So..yea...pretty sure I'm done.
Post of the month/year candidate [^]
From my own personal experience working in the BOK/Williams Tower doing voice and data cabling for Vintage Petroleum (they were on the 43rd, 44th and 45th floors) in the mid 90's, the distance from the physical floor to the metal underlayment of the floor above was right at 13 1/2 feet. I am 5' 10" and standing on a 6' ladder I could almost touch the underlayment. I believe that the drop ceiling in most of the areas on those three floors was 8' 6".