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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 09:41:31 AM

Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 09:41:31 AM
The time is upon us!  This weekend hundreds of thousands of lawn mowers will start up across Oklahoma for the first time since fall.

In 1 hour of operation the average gas mower outputs the same amount of hydrocarbons that a 1992 Ford Explorer emits over 23,000 miles. (Green Seal's Report)

That's about a years worth of driving, so even if you drive a hybrid, and religiously recycle, you are putting out around 15 years or more of SUV driving hydrocarbon every summer that you mow your lawn with the old LawnBoy.

A couple of years ago, I switched from my smokey old Honda rotary mower to a manual powered reel mower on a lark.  

Someone told me they do a better job and are no more difficult to push than a very light gas mower.

What I found was:
They are actually easier to use and transport.
Most only weigh about 20lbs, so you can pick them up and put them where you want!
They cut the grass much finer with that golf course look!
You can use them at 6 am before it gets hot without pissing off your neighbors.
You can have a conversation while mowing the lawn (no noise)!
NO GAS!
Almost no maintenance.
You get funny looks from your neighbors!
Kids in the neighborhood always want to try it ("sure kid! You can mow my lawn for free!")
You get a bit more exercise because they are slightly more narrow than conventional mowers.

Disadvantages:
You can still hear your wife while mowing. [:(]
Most are less than 21 inches across, so you have to walk a few extra strips.
Big sticks will not go through them.

This year, I think I may upgrade to a rechargeable electric model, but we'll see.  

You can purchase them for about $150 from Sears, Home Depot, or Lowe's.  Caution, don't buy the cheapest $99 model, because it will require constant manual blade adjustment and have inferior gears (experience).  

Buy in the $150 to $300 range and you will be happy!  Actually, you will be amazed!

You can find a selection online too, try EcoMowers (//%22http://www.shareasale.com/r.cfm?B=115850&U=225071&M=16511%22)
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: NellieBly on March 20, 2008, 10:05:18 AM
You can lower your impact by mulching grass clippings rather than bagging them. Cut it high and let it lie! Grass is 80 percent water and should not be landfilled. It also serves as free nitrogen-rich fertilizer. Your lawn will thank you.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 10:33:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly

You can lower your impact by mulching grass clippings rather than bagging them. Cut it high and let it lie! Grass is 80 percent water and should not be landfilled. It also serves as free nitrogen-rich fertilizer. Your lawn will thank you.



Yeah, but if you're spitting out a years worth vehicle hydrocarbon every day that you mow, mulching is kinda like saving a flower by killing a forrest!


Title: EcoMowing
Post by: PonderInc on March 20, 2008, 10:53:43 AM
How did it do on bermuda grass?  When I was a kid, we were always playing with an ancient reel mower (probably from the 1930's).  Even when my dad sharpened the blades, it always got bogged down in the bermuda.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: spoonbill on March 20, 2008, 11:08:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar


In 1 hour of operation the average gas mower outputs the same amount of hydrocarbons that a 1992 Ford Explorer emits over 23,000 miles. (Green Seal's Report)




I seriously doubt that little nugget!
Besides, I love the smell of my lawnmower!  Reminds me of spring!
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Conan71 on March 20, 2008, 11:10:14 AM
I'm calling BS or urban myth.

I find numbers like that to be somewhat suspect.  I fail to see how something between a 125cc to 300cc engine burning a half gallon of gas in one hour will put out as much hydrocarbon as a 4000cc engine ('92 Explorer V-6 is a 4.0 liter) burning 1533 gallons of gas (assuming 15 mpg) over a year's time.

I can see where the lawn mower will have higher emissions for 1/2 gallon of gas over a smog-equipped car or truck- that much makes sense, but not 1/2 gallon of gas generating more emissions than 1533 gallons of gas.  Just doesn't even compute.

Please feel free to straighten me out on this point.

Title: EcoMowing
Post by: mrhaskellok on March 20, 2008, 11:13:19 AM
I have almost bought one of these things a couple times, but there are a few videos online of some in  use and they didn't look as easy as I have heard.  The person was obviously having to work harder.  

Not that the exercise is a bad thing, but I don't really want another excuse to NOT want to mow my lawn.  [:D]

IF you or anyone with one would PM me I would love the opportunity to try one.  

Tulsa should buy a couple and let people "lease" them to give them a shot. If they are that much better, they will catch on quickly.  

Are there any lawn companies who use them?

Sid
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: grahambino on March 20, 2008, 11:13:38 AM
we had one of these around 1991-1995 or so.
my dad dug it out of my grandfather's garage.  as long as the blades are sharp, it was pretty easy.  but we also had 'golf green' grass.  fescue maybe?
it certainly wasn't Bermuda grass.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: inteller on March 20, 2008, 11:18:00 AM
you are much better off using an electric mower around here since the electric plant burns clean natural gas.  

Only thing you have to worry about is being a dumbass (which considering might be too difficult for some of you) and cutting your cord, but you quickly figure out cord management.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Conan71 on March 20, 2008, 11:24:17 AM
Another tip, if someone is not inclined to go with a reel mower or electric.  Buy a mower with an OHV (overhead valve) engine.  They burn a lot cleaner than industrial flatheads (the old Briggs & Stratton).

Title: EcoMowing
Post by: patric on March 20, 2008, 11:27:34 AM
quote:
Only thing you have to worry about is being a dumbass (which considering might be too difficult for some of you) and cutting your cord, but you quickly figure out cord management.


If you make it a rule to never plug an outdoor extension cord into anything but a GFCI outlet
(http://www.ss-electric.net/images/gfci_outlet.jpg)
you wont necessarily avoid cutting your own cord but you will survive the experience.

(P.S. just so everyone knows im not being smug, Im one of those who bought the $99 reel mowers.[V])
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: rwarn17588 on March 20, 2008, 11:27:36 AM
I've used reel mowers for about seven years.

I didn't initially do it because of pollution (although the last two areas where I've lived, reducing air pollution was definitely a good thing). I did it because they're lighter, safer and easier to handle. I also liked the fact I didn't have to mess with the engine and buy gas, oil and all the other myriad hassles. When I'm done with the reel mower, I spray the blades with WD-40 and I'm finished until the next mowing.

Gaspar's right about the cheapie models. The gears tend to wear out after about two or three years.

Reel mowers are effective with most types of grass I deal with. There's one (quackgrass, I think) that sends up a small stem that the reel mower seems to miss. But since I do trimming work with a rechargeable Black & Decker, I just buzz over there and zap those shoots in no time at all.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: inteller on March 20, 2008, 11:36:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by patric

quote:
Only thing you have to worry about is being a dumbass (which considering might be too difficult for some of you) and cutting your cord, but you quickly figure out cord management.


If you make it a rule to never plug an outdoor extension cord into anything but a GFCI outlet
(http://www.ss-electric.net/images/gfci_outlet.jpg)
you wont necessarily avoid cutting your own cord but you will survive the experience.

(P.S. just so everyone knows im not being smug, Im one of those who bought the $99 reel mowers.[V])



The draw from an electric mower will frequently trip a GFI.  Just be smart and you won't need a GFI.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: tulsa1603 on March 20, 2008, 11:38:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by patric

quote:
Only thing you have to worry about is being a dumbass (which considering might be too difficult for some of you) and cutting your cord, but you quickly figure out cord management.


If you make it a rule to never plug an outdoor extension cord into anything but a GFCI outlet
(http://www.ss-electric.net/images/gfci_outlet.jpg)
you wont necessarily avoid cutting your own cord but you will survive the experience.

(P.S. just so everyone knows im not being smug, Im one of those who bought the $99 reel mowers.[V])



I hate to admit it, but i once cut clean through a cord for an electric hedge trimmer.  Luckily, I was plugged into a GFCI outlet, and it worked perfectly.  Still a very scary experience. [B)]
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 11:51:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

How did it do on bermuda grass?  When I was a kid, we were always playing with an ancient reel mower (probably from the 1930's).  Even when my dad sharpened the blades, it always got bogged down in the bermuda.



Fescue in the front and Bermuda in the back.  I don't realize a difference.  It really makes Bermuda look nice!  Every blade is exactly the same length and because it's not whacking the grass, it leaves a nice even thatch.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 12:00:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

I'm calling BS or urban myth.

I find numbers like that to be somewhat suspect.  I fail to see how something between a 125cc to 300cc engine burning a half gallon of gas in one hour will put out as much hydrocarbon as a 4000cc engine ('92 Explorer V-6 is a 4.0 liter) burning 1533 gallons of gas (assuming 15 mpg) over a year's time.

I can see where the lawn mower will have higher emissions for 1/2 gallon of gas over a smog-equipped car or truck- that much makes sense, but not 1/2 gallon of gas generating more emissions than 1533 gallons of gas.  Just doesn't even compute.

Please feel free to straighten me out on this point.





I'm just quoting what the website said.  It does seem a bit high.  The environmental issue is only one reason for using a push reel mower or an electric reel mower, it's the effect on the lawn that makes it really worth while.  They just make it look better.  I guess that's why reel mowers are used on golf courses?

I'm probably going to buy one of the electric models (//%22http://www.shareasale.com/r.cfm?B=115850&U=225071&M=16511%22) this spring as long as they are not too much heaver.  My dad wants my old mechanical model, and I'd like to try one out.

I looked at Depot yesterday and noticed that they have the bottom of the line mechanical models.  I'd shy away from those because the gear inside the wheels that drives the rotor does not drive it fast enough, and the wheels will stick, making it harder to push.


Title: EcoMowing
Post by: rwarn17588 on March 20, 2008, 12:05:36 PM
I've done some checking around the Internet, and it seems indisputable that gasoline lawn mowers do pollute more than cars.

That's because cars have a ton of pollutant-suppressing devices in the engine (catalytic converters, EGR valves, etc.). Gas engine lawn mowers have none.

And don't get me started on two-cycle engines. Yeesh.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Conan71 on March 20, 2008, 12:29:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

I've done some checking around the Internet, and it seems indisputable that gasoline lawn mowers do pollute more than cars.

That's because cars have a ton of pollutant-suppressing devices in the engine (catalytic converters, EGR valves, etc.). Gas engine lawn mowers have none.

And don't get me started on two-cycle engines. Yeesh.



For a given amount of fuel burned, yes.  Comparing emissions from 1/2 gal of fuel vs. 1533 sounds like a fairy tale.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 12:41:53 PM
I don't know Conan.  I just found this article that has some EPA figures.

Traditional gas-powered lawn mowers are responsible for 5 percent of the nation's air pollution, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, which recently created emission regulations for small engines like those that lawn mowers use. One gas mower running for an hour emits the same amount of pollutants as eight new cars driving 55 mph for the same amount of time, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists.  From The Daily American

and I found this graphic that makes me laugh for some reason.

(http://www.peoplepoweredmachines.com/p_images/epa.gif)

. . . and this from CNN:
A typical 3.5 horsepower gas mower, for instance, can emit the same amount of VOCs -- key precursors to smog -- in an hour as a new car driven 340 miles, say industry experts.

The replacement of every 500 gas mowers with non-motorized mowers would spare the air

212 pounds of hydrocarbons
(smog ingredient)
1.7 pounds of nitrogen oxides
(smog ingredient)
5.6 pounds of irritating particles 1,724 pounds of carbon dioxide

garden equipment users spill 17 million gallons of fuel each year...more petroleum than spilled by the Exxon Valdez in the Gulf of Alaska.
CNN Onine
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Conan71 on March 20, 2008, 03:02:38 PM
Gaspar, Those are much more plausible numbers re: 8 cars driven at 55 MPH for same amount of time as the mower.  

I can buy that, but 23,000 miles, especially with 1992 emissions controls that was a whopper!

Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 03:15:08 PM
Yeah they are really all over the map on this topic.  Needless to say, small engines are dirty little buggers.
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 20, 2008, 03:33:51 PM
I looked it up and saw various statistics.  But it seems the comparison is:  one small 2 stroke motor (chainsaw, lawn mower, blower) for one hour = driving an average car 3,000 miles.  For some pollutants it was more, for others it was far less.  

2 stroke engines burn oil - which is much less refined.  They do not have catalytic converters.  They are not as finely tuned as most cars.  They lack electronic control for air intake, fuel ratios, and complex injection systems.  

Snow mobiles, two stroke motor cycles (including old scooters that get 100000 mpg), and 2 stroke boat motors are equally bad polluters.  Snow mobiles are particularly bad (large 2 stroke engines), Yellowstone actually had smog at times in the winter until they banned them (not to mention the noise of one can be heard for 10+ square miles!).

Interesting calculator:
http://www.epa.gov/air/community/mowerexchange_calculator.html
- - -

I'd get a REEL.  But I'm cheap and already have a mower.  Plus I'm lazy and don't always mow as frequently as I should (if my Bermuda grow 4" tall and I wanted down to 2/5" I'd be screwed).  Plus dog turds.  I think I'll buy a new acoustic guitar instead ans save power that way.

But I appreciate the effort!
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 20, 2008, 03:35:25 PM
[edit] The dreaded double post! [/edit]
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Gaspar on March 20, 2008, 03:40:14 PM
Goes through dog turds like butter!

Ok... that's just gross.  I'm sorry!
Title: EcoMowing
Post by: Conan71 on March 20, 2008, 03:51:45 PM
I'm guilty of having one of the last two stroke Lawn Boy models made.  Fortunately, my postage stamp-sized lawn takes about seven minutes to mow.

At least from the hobby side, after owning race cars, an airplane, and multiple motorcycles, I did manage to find one of the greenest vehicles available to indulge myself in: a sailboat.

Title: EcoMowing
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 20, 2008, 04:02:47 PM
You know what?  My mower is brand new as of last year.  4 Stroke.  I totally forgot about that.  Super duper mulching mower without self propel (saves gas!), 4 stroke, high efficiency.  Geea!

I don't even feel guilty about my sloth now.