Well, en route home from work on night this past week (I am these days working in the IT field; more on that later), I've managed to get hit up by yet another panhandler.
After I'd gotten off work, I found that I had to stop off at a local convenience store in the vicinity of 61st & Peoria, for a few items. I'd noticed that it had a small number of people hanging out in front, and I'd done my best to get from my truck to the front door of the place without catching their attention that much.
Well, I'd no sooner walked 3ft away from my truck, when this woman comes up to me and asks me if i'll buy her a can of beer. I waved her off and walked inside, where she followed me. She then loudly tells the guy behind the counter that I'd pay for her beer. I looked at him, shok my head as if to say, "no, that is not going to happen," and he went along with me on that. Strangely enough, though, she was drinking that can of beer as I was leaving the establishment!
So I make it up to the counter with my items, and as the guy is ringing them up, this other guy has a can of beer, and asks me if I could do him a favor, and give him 50 cents so he could buy his beer. I pay for my items-not his-and I try to leave. As I'm walking out to my truck, I'm hearing various jibes about whitey this and racist that. Then again, didn't someone on this board say that this area was considered "the hood"?
I'm not against charity, or helping out someone in need, but if I work hard to take care of the things I need and the things I want and if I believe that others should try to do the same, does that make me a racist? Cannot understand that if my life depended on it!
That's what you get for shopping at convenience store at 61st and Peoria. It's wrong these folks messed with you, but it just seems like one of those intuitive things, like not spitting into the wind.
Rules for living in a city:
Don't show fear.
Avoid eye contact with strangers.
If you are approached by a stranger, keep moving, don't slow down.
If you are asked for money say, "I don't have any" while you keep moving.
Don't display your valuables. Don't wear expensive jewelry.
Don't take offense if you are insulted by a stranger. They aren't worth a response.
There are a lot of hungry people out there. Help where you can and give to charitable organizations to keep your karma clean. But don't put yourself at risk.
Hungry dysfunctional people don't care about your politics all they are interested in is that dollar in your pocket.
Don't ever stop your car on 61st and Peoria! I don't even stop at stoplights at 61st and Peoria. That area has become one of the most dangerous parts of Tulsa (you could get hit by a very frightened guy running stop-lights). Look at the live crime map on the Tulsa Police site. It's lit up like a Christmas tree!
The police regularly sweep many of the apartment complexes there. They just walk through the complexes and ask anyone they see for ID then when they run, they arrest them.
If you need crack, however, that's the place to go!
I used to have to do some visits at some sort of subsidized home out that way. During the day, I never really had a problem and I walked around quite a bit. I had a few encounters, but they were mostly just sad -- like kids who thought I was bringing them Christmas presents because I was wearing an ID badge.
I know a guy who frequents the Taqueria right there.
That said, I wouldn't ever go in a convenience store there.
Sorry to hear you were put in an uncomfortable position. A good reason to step up enforcement of pan handling laws (fines!). Especially with the potential for herd mentality.
They travel in packs!
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
That's what you get for shopping at convenience store at 61st and Peoria. It's wrong these folks messed with you, but it just seems like one of those intuitive things, like not spitting into the wind.
Well, I can handle myself regardless of what part of town it is: I did live in New Orleans, after all, and dare say that I acquitted myself quite well. Not that I plan on moving back there, but still!
Amazing isn't it? Tulsa has changed. Evenso, I'd expect that in Downtown Tulsa, or even on the North Side, but not in South Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Rules for living in a city:
Don't show fear.
Avoid eye contact with strangers.
If you are approached by a stranger, keep moving, don't slow down.
If you are asked for money say, "I don't have any" while you keep moving.
Don't display your valuables. Don't wear expensive jewelry.
Don't take offense if you are insulted by a stranger. They aren't worth a response.
There are a lot of hungry people out there. Help where you can and give to charitable organizations to keep your karma clean. But don't put yourself at risk.
Hungry dysfunctional people don't care about your politics all they are interested in is that dollar in your pocket.
Good rules to live by, regardless of the city.
That part of town has been at least a little rough for at least a couple of decades. There's some subsidized housing and you've just got a pocket of people without a lot of money. DHS should just open up a branch office over there if they haven't already.
Downtown, by comparison, is much safer. There are some homeless people, but they are pretty harmless. Likewise, there are a couple of places downtown you just don't go, like whatever club Kitchell opens up next.
I don't really consider that part of town "south Tulsa" -- it's kind of a no man's land in between.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Rules for living in a city:
Don't show fear.
Avoid eye contact with strangers.
If you are approached by a stranger, keep moving, don't slow down.
If you are asked for money say, "I don't have any" while you keep moving.
Don't display your valuables. Don't wear expensive jewelry.
Don't take offense if you are insulted by a stranger. They aren't worth a response.
There are a lot of hungry people out there. Help where you can and give to charitable organizations to keep your karma clean. But don't put yourself at risk.
Hungry dysfunctional people don't care about your politics all they are interested in is that dollar in your pocket.
Holy crap, HT, you almost sound like a damn conservative in that post.
I did want to correct one factual error in your post:
"Hungry dysfunctional
liberals don't care about your politics all they are interested in is that dollar in your pocket."
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
Don't ever stop your car on 61st and Peoria! I don't even stop at stoplights at 61st and Peoria. That area has become one of the most dangerous parts of Tulsa (you could get hit by a very frightened guy running stop-lights). Look at the live crime map on the Tulsa Police site. It's lit up like a Christmas tree!
The police regularly sweep many of the apartment complexes there. They just walk through the complexes and ask anyone they see for ID then when they run, they arrest them.
If you need crack, however, that's the place to go!
Well, that would be one way of dealing with the situation, though as for effectiveness, the jury is still out on that. i mean, if the panhandlers are out, obviously, they have not been run off, not just by the police, but by the store's management.
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
That part of town has been at least a little rough for at least a couple of decades. There's some subsidized housing and you've just got a pocket of people without a lot of money. DHS should just open up a branch office over there if they haven't already.
Downtown, by comparison, is much safer. There are some homeless people, but they are pretty harmless. Likewise, there are a couple of places downtown you just don't go, like whatever club Kitchell opens up next.
I don't really consider that part of town "south Tulsa" -- it's kind of a no man's land in between.
I carry myself not looking for trouble, but not running away from it either. Evenso, I don't plan on shopping in that particular quadrant anytime soon. May be close to my work, but hey, so is Quik Trip.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Sorry to hear you were put in an uncomfortable position. A good reason to step up enforcement of pan handling laws (fines!). Especially with the potential for herd mentality.
They travel in packs!
Transient gangs!
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
That said, I wouldn't ever go in a convenience store there.
Oh, I don't plan on doing that again.
That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....
Look directly at them, then say, "find me something to kill you with".
Then wander off like you are looking for a rock or a stick.
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering. Better yet, disturbing the peace. They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?
61st/peoria is a pocket ghetto created by bad planning and housing policy. you go one mile in any direction and you are presented with average to upper income neighborhoods.
it should all be scraped off and redone.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....
Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....
Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.
You a smart boy..You learn quick....[:D]
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering. Better yet, disturbing the peace. They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?
The buisness could put a tresspass on them....
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering. Better yet, disturbing the peace. They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?
Loitering is really trespassing, which would have to be a citizens arrest made by the store, which rarely happens (they're potential customers). A police officer's peace can't be disturbed, so, again, a citizen would have to file charges.
Being drunk in public is against the law. Shouting obscenities could be iffy. That pesky freedom of speech thing again. I doubt a prosecutor would agree to file that one.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering. Better yet, disturbing the peace. They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?
Loitering is really trespassing, which would have to be a citizens arrest made by the store, which rarely happens (they're potential customers). A police officer's peace can't be disturbed, so, again, a citizen would have to file charges.
Being drunk in public is against the law. Shouting obscenities could be iffy. That pesky freedom of speech thing again. I doubt a prosecutor would agree to file that one.
QT has no problem doing it. I have seen them do it on several occasions.
If a panhandler is on the street cussing up a storm and causing a scence in front of people, they are going to call police. The police will ask if they want to file a report and have them arrested. I have seen this several times as well. In particular the black guy who is yelling about "GOD" at the QT at Pine and Mingo. Or the guy who was riding around as santa clause with a big blow up penis behind his bike. If someone can be cited for playing their music too loud, then this should certainly fall under that realm IMO.
But yeah OP, stay away from that convienence store. Go down the street to the QT at 45th and Peoria or 61st and Lewis. The one at 61st and lewis is nothing but business people for the most part during the day. And once Metro lets out of school for the day, alot of hot mom's come through!!
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....
Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.
You a smart boy..You learn quick....[:D]
Besides, i am not comfortable being called
racist.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....
Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.
You a smart boy..You learn quick....[:D]
Besides, i am not comfortable being called racist.
Well just wait FOTD will be along shortly...
Ive long advocated putting a massive mobile home park at 61st and Peoria. That way we would create a "Tornado Magnet" and before long the entire area could be subject for rebuilding.
Remember the "Oklahoma Rule." The one things tornados and divorce have in common is that with either one, you are sure to lose your trailer.....
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
That is not correct.
Tulsa City Ordinances, Title 24, §100
quote:
A public nuisance consists of unlawfully doing an act or omitting to perform a duty,
which act or omission:
A. Annoys, injures or endangers the safety, health, comfort or repose of others;
B. Offends public decency;
C. Unlawfully interferes with, obstructs or tends to obstruct, or renders
dangerous for passage a lake or basin or any public park, square, alley, highway or street;
or
D. In any way renders other persons insecure in life or in the use of property.
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title24.asp
for a more direct reproach:
Tulsa City Ordinance Title 37, § 1105
quote:
SECTION 1105. PEDESTRIANS SOLICITING RIDES, EMPLOYMENT,
BUSINESS, OR CONTRIBUTIONS
No person shall step or stand in the roadway or median used to channel traffic for
the purpose of soliciting a ride, employment, business, or contributions of any kind from
the occupant of any vehicle; provided however, that sworn public safety officers may
solicit contributions for a charitable project officially adopted by their bargaining agents.
Ord. No. 17372
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title37.asp#Chapter10
They can stand with a cup, but if they ASK for money they are a nuisance. Generally, to avoid issues it (and similar laws) are enforced if they ask twice, not on the first inquiry.
Begging is not political speech. It is not conveying a message other than it's face value. The protection of which does little or nothing for the value of democracy, which is the core test for free speech (and why PETA protesters can get naked (or dang close) while drunken college students cant).
Phrase it as a safety rule (can hinder or distract traffic) or as part of nuisance (my right to not be bothered is > than right to beg for money), the "free speech" argument only goes so far. Certainly the behavior listed at the start of this thread crosses the line to nuisance, harassment, or even intimidation.
There are laws on the books, and as far as I can tell they are simply not enforced. I understand there are other priorities, just sayin' the perception of downtown and several areas/intersections is severely degraded by bums.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....
Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.
You a smart boy..You learn quick....[:D]
Besides, i am not comfortable being called racist.
Well just wait FOTD will be along shortly...
It's a terrible paradox-if that's the right word. If I go ahead and buy them their beer, then I'm a sucker, and if I don't, then I'm considered a racist.
When I have people coming up to me asking for money, gas, whatever... I just say, show me your tits (guys included). So far nobody has complied, but it usually overwhelms them enough to leave me alone.
quote:
Originally posted by unknown
When I have people coming up to me asking for money, gas, whatever... I just say, show me your tits (guys included). So far nobody has complied, but it usually overwhelms them enough to leave me alone.
If they did, would that make them a solicitor of lewd services?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
There is no law against panhandling. Sorry. Freedom of speech. A constitutional thing.
You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg. Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.
That is not correct.
Tulsa City Ordinances, Title 24, §100
quote:
A public nuisance consists of unlawfully doing an act or omitting to perform a duty,
which act or omission:
A. Annoys, injures or endangers the safety, health, comfort or repose of others;
B. Offends public decency;
C. Unlawfully interferes with, obstructs or tends to obstruct, or renders
dangerous for passage a lake or basin or any public park, square, alley, highway or street;
or
D. In any way renders other persons insecure in life or in the use of property.
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title24.asp
for a more direct reproach:
Tulsa City Ordinance Title 37, § 1105
quote:
SECTION 1105. PEDESTRIANS SOLICITING RIDES, EMPLOYMENT,
BUSINESS, OR CONTRIBUTIONS
No person shall step or stand in the roadway or median used to channel traffic for
the purpose of soliciting a ride, employment, business, or contributions of any kind from
the occupant of any vehicle; provided however, that sworn public safety officers may
solicit contributions for a charitable project officially adopted by their bargaining agents.
Ord. No. 17372
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title37.asp#Chapter10
They can stand with a cup, but if they ASK for money they are a nuisance. Generally, to avoid issues it (and similar laws) are enforced if they ask twice, not on the first inquiry.
Begging is not political speech. It is not conveying a message other than it's face value. The protection of which does little or nothing for the value of democracy, which is the core test for free speech (and why PETA protesters can get naked (or dang close) while drunken college students cant).
Phrase it as a safety rule (can hinder or distract traffic) or as part of nuisance (my right to not be bothered is > than right to beg for money), the "free speech" argument only goes so far. Certainly the behavior listed at the start of this thread crosses the line to nuisance, harassment, or even intimidation.
There are laws on the books, and as far as I can tell they are simply not enforced. I understand there are other priorities, just sayin' the perception of downtown and several areas/intersections is severely degraded by bums.
Sorry, but no law against begging, unless you AGGRESSIVELY beg. Aggressive is defined as asking more then once. That one person who was asked more then once would have to file charges.
There is no law that prohibits someone from asking for money. I could go door-to-door in any neighborhood and ask for money and nothing the police could do.
Title 37 Section 1105 says you can't step in the street to solicit. I already said you can't beg in the street.
And, you can ARREST anyone for just about anything. Doesn't mean they'll be CONVICTED. Two different things.
Professional Panhandler: Girl Pretends to be Homeless to Pocket '$50 an Hour'...
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/84523.html
When I see someone approach me, I ask them for $2 before they ask me for anything. I usually throws them off and they give up on the pitch.
I mean, If they gave it to me, I'd keep it.
Liberal as I thought I was, I am becoming of the opinion that the govenment could throw all kinds of money at these people, and they still wouldn't try to get out of the particular way of life they've obviously so defiantly chosen for themselves.
Happens every time I've been hit up by panhandlers in Tulsa, and chaps my rear every time. Some panhandler does the old shuck and jive routine on me ("Yo man, give me a dolla!" or "Yo, man, give me $5" or "Say, man, I need $10 to get some gas," or "I need $5 to take my son to McDonalds") to try to set me back a couple of bucks. Or it could be "Yo man, I need a ride up to wherever," or whatever. And I'm hesitatnt, and try to politely decline, and they still won't back off. And when I finally just say no, I'm not going to do this, some of them-not all of them, and certainly not all of them who happen to be of African American ancestry, but some of them-go off and accuse me of being a racist. I'm supposed to feel guilty now, because I'm not going to let them scam me? Is it a matter of race because I'm probably as street savvy as they are and know when i'm being hustled? Can somebody show me where I'm wrong about this?
Incidentally, I am using the Quik Trips at the locations suggested here. Nobody has yet given me any grief.
Judge to Cops: Leave 'em ALONE. (//%22http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/03/nyregion/03beg.html%22)
Judge to Panhandlers: ENJOY! (//%22http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/276104/are_panhandlers_rights_to_freedom_of.html%22)