Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes?

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our under-paid city servants.  Don't we?

What makes you think they are underpaid?

The starting monthly pay during the seven month academy is $3,217 (works out to $38,604 per year). Upon graduation, they make $42,470 plus a free car and tremendous health benefits and all the overtime they want. All officers with a degree also get a hundred dollar a month extra.

Officers also get a $9.60 extra per month for each month they have served to a maximum of $240 per month.

That means the starting pay is now $50,000 plus a take home company car (gotta be worth another $7,000 a year).

The Tulsa World has a database for all government salaries and just in salaries alone, over a hundred Tulsa police officers made over $70,000 in base pay last year. Add in time and a half overtime, the other added pay and the car and these officers now make over $90,000 a year.

I think Tulsa Police are paid fine and they have no problem finding plenty of qualified applicants.

[shadows]

Gaspar| My post refers to policies but you have a point.  We could place an add in papers in Germany, Japan, Mexico that we have opens in Tulsa where we will train them, give them keys to a new car with police painted on it in big letters, can live outside Tulsa in cities within the 25 radius of Tulsa, knowing the city and the background of the citizens is not required but it would help to speak English.    

Or advertise we have openings for persons who are residents of Tulsa, have a background knowledge of the cities problems and park the city police cars that are furnished you to drive home, in a conspicuous spot when off duty, being visible to help curtail the increasing small crime wave we have.

If you have doubts go park your curser at an throughway intersection behind the stop sign and watch the stop light on the vehicles come on as they approach the parked police car.   The first duty of an officer should be stopping the crime before it happens in Tulsa not outlying towns.  I understand there is a new study suggesting the hiring of civilians to man the desks and put more police on the streets but we cannot afford new cars for them until we find a new source of income to buy new cars or maybe they already are driving cars home in the surrounding cities.  

The military, to my knowledge, does not furnish private vehicles to drive off base so why should the citizens of Tulsa furnish them when the city has a much smaller budget.   Course with the amount of revenue bonds we are issuing we could let some of the tensile encased building go and have enough money to let every citizen have a new car.  

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our under-paid city servants.  Don't we?

What makes you think they are underpaid?

The starting monthly pay during the seven month academy is $3,217 (works out to $38,604 per year). Upon graduation, they make $42,470 plus a free car and tremendous health benefits and all the overtime they want. All officers with a degree also get a hundred dollar a month extra.

Officers also get a $9.60 extra per month for each month they have served to a maximum of $240 per month.

That means the starting pay is now $50,000 plus a take home company car (gotta be worth another $7,000 a year).

The Tulsa World has a database for all government salaries and just in salaries alone, over a hundred Tulsa police officers made over $70,000 in base pay last year. Add in time and a half overtime, the other added pay and the car and these officers now make over $90,000 a year.

I think Tulsa Police are paid fine and they have no problem finding plenty of qualified applicants.

Here we go again. This discussion comes up every year.  This year was a little late.

The 10 city survey the city of Tulsa agreed to shows we are underpaid in comparision to other cities our size.

We have an extremely hard time finding qualified applicants.  Most cities in the 10 city survey don't require a college education and pay more than us.  We also have a hard time retaining trained officers.

I love the math that a take-home car that can't be used for personal use is worth $7,000.00 a year. The take home car is a benefit both ways. The city gets a fully trained officer on the streets, available to respond to calls (on their way to and from work or extra job or court for the price of gas, which was $3.29 a gallon today (which the city buys tax free).  Sure beats paying an officer time and a half for overtime.

100 officers made $70,000.00 in base pay? That is still below the average when compared to other cities our size.  As far as "all the overtime you want", that is just wrong.  Where do you come up with this?  We can't just decide to work overtime.  Officers just don't say, I think I'll work an extra five hours tonight. Overtime is monitored. Officers are regularly sent home so the city doesn't have to pay overtime whenever possible. Don't think for one minute, the city likes paying officers time and a half when they could be paying officers regular time. Besides, overtime worked is extra time (time spent at work over the normal 40 hours a week.  Which means more time away from our families. I know it might sound crazy but officers do have lives outside of work.

If the city would properly staff the police department officers would work less overtime(which would make city finance happy) and be able to spend more time at home with their families (which would make most officers happy).

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our under-paid city servants.  Don't we?

What makes you think they are underpaid?

The starting monthly pay during the seven month academy is $3,217 (works out to $38,604 per year). Upon graduation, they make $42,470 plus a free car and tremendous health benefits and all the overtime they want. All officers with a degree also get a hundred dollar a month extra.

Officers also get a $9.60 extra per month for each month they have served to a maximum of $240 per month.

That means the starting pay is now $50,000 plus a take home company car (gotta be worth another $7,000 a year).

The Tulsa World has a database for all government salaries and just in salaries alone, over a hundred Tulsa police officers made over $70,000 in base pay last year. Add in time and a half overtime, the other added pay and the car and these officers now make over $90,000 a year.

I think Tulsa Police are paid fine and they have no problem finding plenty of qualified applicants.

Here we go again. This discussion comes up every year.  This year was a little late.

The 10 city survey the city of Tulsa agreed to shows we are underpaid in comparision to other cities our size.

We have an extremely hard time finding qualified applicants.  Most cities in the 10 city survey don't require a college education and pay more than us.  We also have a hard time retaining trained officers.

I love the math that a take-home car that can't be used for personal use is worth $7,000.00 a year. The take home car is a benefit both ways. The city gets a fully trained officer on the streets, available to respond to calls (on their way to and from work or extra job or court for the price of gas, which was $3.29 a gallon today (which the city buys tax free).  Sure beats paying an officer time and a half for overtime.

100 officers made $70,000.00 in base pay? That is still below the average when compared to other cities our size.  As far as "all the overtime you want", that is just wrong.  Where do you come up with this?  We can't just decide to work overtime.  Officers just don't say, I think I'll work an extra five hours tonight. Overtime is monitored. Officers are regularly sent home so the city doesn't have to pay overtime whenever possible. Don't think for one minute, the city likes paying officers time and a half when they could be paying officers regular time. Besides, overtime worked is extra time (time spent at work over the normal 40 hours a week.  Which means more time away from our families. I know it might sound crazy but officers do have lives outside of work.

If the city would properly staff the police department officers would work less overtime(which would make city finance happy) and be able to spend more time at home with their families (which would make most officers happy).

MH2010 -

Don't do it!  Don't get sucked in again!  RecycleMichael believes all city employees are paid too much, unless you are a Mayor appointee, then you are paid too little.

[RecycleMichael]

I don't believe that all city employees are paid too much. I don't think police officers are paid too much.

I think they are paid fairly.

I just am tired of the argument that police are paid too little. Whenever I hear that argument, I ask the person how much they are paid. They never know, but just assume they are underpaid.

It must be great to have everybody think you are underpaid when nobody knows how much that actually is.

I just wanted to inform them of the facts.

[shadows]

Gads; RM not only needs to wear a black wig with sunglasses now after that posting.  He should  also add a straw hat and trench coat, when peddling those tickets in competition with stores that are also selling them at face value.   The lying bare the true compensations received by our out-of-town police departments, that wants to live sixteen hours a day in other cities, may not set well with our department and could cause more drive by shooting because our police are not at the home base.

A bouquet of non-recycled roses should be presented to him for researching the true compensation received by the police department in the World data.  

Stand up and give him a loud hand.

[RecycleMichael]

It is a good thing I am a law-abiding citizen.

I know both MH2010 and wilbur personally. They are fine officers.

If I was speeding down the street and they saw me, I doubt my comments on this forum would change the outcome.

If I deserved the ticket, they would give me one.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our under-paid city servants.  Don't we?

What makes you think they are underpaid?

The starting monthly pay during the seven month academy is $3,217 (works out to $38,604 per year). Upon graduation, they make $42,470 plus a free car and tremendous health benefits and all the overtime they want. All officers with a degree also get a hundred dollar a month extra.

Officers also get a $9.60 extra per month for each month they have served to a maximum of $240 per month.

That means the starting pay is now $50,000 plus a take home company car (gotta be worth another $7,000 a year).

The Tulsa World has a database for all government salaries and just in salaries alone, over a hundred Tulsa police officers made over $70,000 in base pay last year. Add in time and a half overtime, the other added pay and the car and these officers now make over $90,000 a year.

I think Tulsa Police are paid fine and they have no problem finding plenty of qualified applicants.

Ok, I stand corrected, let me rephrase. . . "We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our fairly-paid city servants."

I feel that any skilled profession with a salary cap is unfortunate (but that is just my perspective).  City servants, or others that choose to work in skilled professions that limit advancement, except of course by political means, should be respected for their sacrifice.  

Skilled professions like Teachers, Cops, and Firefighters, should always garner the respect of the communities they serve.  

Perks, like company cars, medical insurance, dental plans, and retirement are enticements designed to attract and keep employees.  They are less expensive than frequent turnover.  There is also something about "benefits" that makes people perceive that they are getting something that they couldn't acquire on their own.  

Would you rather have an extra $4,000 a year in pay-raise or a new company car to drive?

Would you rather have an extra $450 a year pay-raise or a dental plan?

Would you rather have $7,500 a year pay-raise or a medical plan?

Perception drives benefit programs, it's a tool that companies use as a bargaining chip, and causes an unnatural dependance on the company that helps foster employee retention.  That's all it is.  

Just like the unnatural dependence on government that some feel, because they have been socialized to believe it.

So back to my point.  I don't think the use of city vehicles by city employees for transportation to and from the workplace is unreasonable.  I don't think that the city has any right to mandate where an employee can choose to live either.  

[shadows]

MH2010 posted "love the math that a take-home car that can't be used for personal use is worth $7,000.00 a year. The take home car is a benefit both ways. The city gets a fully trained officer on the streets, available to respond to calls (on their way to and from work or extra job or court for the price of gas, which was $3.29 a gallon today (which the city buys tax free). Sure beats paying an officer time and a half for overtime
--------------------------------------------

Unless there has been great changes in the surplus in the state and federal road taxes and all the highways are not need of repair the gas used in personal commuting in government cars are taxed the same as any other gas tax.

The free lunches were removed along in the beer area to be replaced with road taxes to repair roads and bridges. Tulsa looks forward to the road tax of one each month of one dollar for each and ever person on the last census report.

[tnt091605]

Shadows you are so ignorant!

and by your own comment " Posted - 08/20/2008 :  21:52:55      
I have been audited by the IRS three times. I paid, plus interest, because I drove a company car to eat and drove it home at times. I am a firm believer In the equal protection clause."

A CHEAT!!!!!

[tnt091605]

Gaspar, well said!