Richest Americans got richer under Bush

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Artist, what you forget is that come jobs are more conducive to working for someone else.

Petroleum engineers would have a hard time going it on their own.  Rocket scientists.  Electrical engineers.  Automotive engineers.  They simply don't have the individual capital to go it alone.  

Then there is the millions of blue collar jobs as machinists, welders, drivers, fork lift operators - that have virtually no chance of going it alone.  They can start their own companies sure, but then THEY will need to hire people to do those jobs.


Many other professional jobs require years of training to be able to go it alone. Accountants, finance directors, marketing, tons of fields.  Right out of school you know nothing. Later in your career you may make more working for someone else than going it alone.

Many career require a combination of experience, capital AND connections to go alone.   An architect, accountant, or attorney needs experience and access to a client base to try and hang out their own shingle.   If you are from an area you have a leg up.  If you have built up a reputation working for someone else you have a better shot.

And still other professions simply are rarely conducive to going it on your own:  teachers, firefighters, policemen, casino managers, cruise ship captains.  TONS and TONS of jobs are not conducive to being your own boss.  Tell the blue collar workers in Tulsa that they have low wage worker jobs - most of the welders, operating engineers, machinists, etc. would disagree.

Then there is the risk factor.  If you have a family it is hard to bet your life savings on a business.  To quit a stable job with health insurance on a gamble.  

I agree with the sentiment of encouraging people to start their own businesses.  But don't forget that option is not always as easy for many peoples skill sets as it is for others.  A happy medium to encourage BUSINESS would be a good thing - the size of the business doesn't matter.  They all generate wealth and put people to work.

I get your point. I think you latched onto my "not working for other people" part and missed the "small and medium sized businesses creating wealth" part lol. Many of the welders and machinists you mentioned for instance work for local small and medium sized companies. The people who own those local companies are the ones getting the wealth and keeping it in our local economy. It seems to me that the more of those businesses you have in an area, the more wealthy people there are in the area. Teachers, firefighters, policemen, etc. are paid with our taxes and are not meant to be businesses generating wealth. Not in the sense of this conversation anyway.  Architects, attorneys and accountants,,, there are quite a number of those I have worked for. There are a lot of small and medium sized businesses of that sort in this city. I bet the local accountant who has a small firm here, that I go to, makes more than the accountants in the local H&R Block office. The profits, thats the wealth, that the workers in the H&R office make goes off to headquarters. We all know how important it is to have company headquarters in a city and the wealth that can bring. Basically small/medium sized local businesses are just lots of small headquarters.

When you eat at a locally owned restaurant, your not just paying the servers, chefs, etc. your paying the owner who lives in town and supports the local economy. If you go to a large chain, your paying the servers, chefs, etc... but the profits leave the city and go to a few CEO's, stockholders, etc. Now, if you give them a tax break, that money still doesn't go to the local economy. If you think they will expand their businesses in our city and hire more people in our city, because they have more money to spend in their city, or even to expand a business in our city... That doesn't make sense.

If they were to give me a tax break with the expectation that I would add more jobs or expand my business. I couldn't do it. Its not going to make any sense for me to hire more people when there aren't more clients or people buying what I sell. IF there were more people buying what I sold, THEN I would expand and hire to meet that demand. However, giving me the small business owner or wage worker a tax break enables me and them, "the local restaurant owner" to spend more money locally aka wanting to purchase more goods, THEN the businesses can expand to meet that demand.

It still seems to me that giving more tax breaks to the few super wealthy versus the average guy or small/medium sized business owners, well, it doesn't seem like it would work as well to spur your local economy.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

My sense of humor is sort of Jewishy.  Love irony.  Now, picture this.  I've done work for the likes of David Boies and Laurence Pulgram.  Just think, I could be that senior, top drawer assistant making you look really good.  $40,000.

That's even better.  You ought to be charging AT LEAST $45K in this market, based on that info. []

How's life on the hill?  I just sent you a PM...

[Cats Cats Cats]

"If they were to give me a tax break with the expectation that I would add more jobs or expand my business. I couldn't do it. Its not going to make any sense for me to hire more people when there aren't more clients or people buying what I sell. IF there were more people buying what I sold, THEN I would expand and hire to meet that demand. However, giving me the small business owner or wage worker a tax break enables me and them, "the local restaurant owner" to spend more money locally aka wanting to purchase more goods, THEN the businesses can expand to meet that demand. "

You do not know how many times I have had to try to explain people at work that just because you get more money doesn't mean you hire people.  "Cut the tax for the rich, they create jobs".  Why?!?  There is no reason to hire ANYBODY if they do not make you more money than you pay them.  You hire people to meet demand for services or product.  If you get a $10k or $20k tax cut you aren't going to hire anybody unless your sales pick up and you NEED to hire somebody else.  I have a business (I am the only employee).  And I have made enough money to hire somebody to work for me.  But I would rather just do it myself and keep the money I pay them.  Republicans who don't have a business thinks they figured out what step 2 was with the underpants gnomes.  Step 1) Steal Underpants Step 2) Hire more workers?!?!? Step 3) Profit. All (totally not) joking aside that is why I don't want people trickling on me.  I want people who buy the goods or services that I sell to have increased business.  Based on the fact that we have our economy based solely on consumers.  They are the ones that drive the hiring.  If you own a shop that does primarily business to business sales SOMEWHERE in that chain consumer demand drives your sales.  It might be 2 or 10 companies down, but it is there.