Aim Towards Wind & Relieve Thyself

[Gaspar]

GM about to run out of bail-out money.

Fritz Henderson, GM's president and chief operating officer, said without the second installment of $5.4 billion, the company would run out of cash long before March 31.  In December, the Treasury Department authorized $13.4 billion in loans for GM and another $4 billion for Chrysler LLC to keep both automakers out of bankruptcy.  GM received $4 billion late last year and was to get $5.4 billion Jan. 16 and another $4 billion on Feb. 17, the day it is to submit its plan to show the government how it will become viable.

[sgrizzle]

I want $13.4 Billion in business loans before I even submit a business plan. I'm sure when they do submit it, it will just be a picture of a chevy volt, maybe with a bikini woman on it. They seem to be throwing their whole weight behind a car that neither looks, performs or costs as was originally promised. I got a chuckle when I watching c-span last night (I know, I'm lame) and they kept referring to the volt as a PHEV and not EV which is accurate, but contrary to GM's Marketing spin.

[cannon_fodder]

GM runs out of cash and needs more from Uncle Sam - to the surprise of nobody...

Watch for GM to undergo either a MASSIVE restructuring or otherwise be pieced off.

- Pontiac will be returned to a nitch performance brand.

- Buick will be folded in favor of bolstering Cadillac.  

- Overseas assets and brands will be sold off.

- A few plants will be sold to rivals

The hat will hang on the VOLT.  The VOLT will fail.  40 miles on electricity AND a gas engine means it has duplicate systems.  Twice as many pieces to fail, twice the cost.  Other than as a novelty item, what use is it really?

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

GM runs out of cash and needs more from Uncle Sam - to the surprise of nobody...

Watch for GM to undergo either a MASSIVE restructuring or otherwise be pieced off.

- Pontiac will be returned to a nitch performance brand.

- Buick will be folded in favor of bolstering Cadillac.  

- Overseas assets and brands will be sold off.

- A few plants will be sold to rivals

The hat will hang on the VOLT.  The VOLT will fail.  40 miles on electricity AND a gas engine means it has duplicate systems.  Twice as many pieces to fail, twice the cost.  Other than as a novelty item, what use is it really?

Excellent point.

I also agree with Inteller. I cannot wait for the Big 3's failure.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


The hat will hang on the VOLT.  The VOLT will fail.  40 miles on electricity AND a gas engine means it has duplicate systems.  Twice as many pieces to fail, twice the cost.  Other than as a novelty item, what use is it really?

For someone like me, it's perfectly conceived. I'd only have to use gas when I go to Arkansas about once a month. That would be great.

Not that I'll buy one. It's simply not cost effective. (no new car is, IMO)

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, it will only be the Big 2....Ford made their painful decisions back in 2005 and they have a plan that is actually executing very well.  Seen the new 2010 Taurus or Fusion?  Now THOSE are American cars I'd buy.

My problem with the Big 3 is the UAW and it's because of them (and of course the quality of foreign cars--Toyota/Lexus) that I will never buy another car from those companies.

[Gaspar]

Far worse is that the US corporate losses will exceed 2 trillion by March or sooner, meaning that any paltry 800 billion dollar public spending package is simply wasted.  

History has shown us that Public spending only has a multiplier of 1.5 in changing GDP, according to the John Maynard Keynes model.  Therefore a public spending package of 1.3 trillion will be necessary to simply bridge the gap, and to reverse it would require continued spending that we cannot afford.  That's not even considering psychological market factors.

We are fast approaching the point where a reduction of federal taxes may not even be effective (we would have to do 500 billion over 5 years to make the target).  That would have to be structured towards businesses to be effective, which the administration couldn't' stomach.

So unless they "brand" it as something else. President Obama is going to have a difficult time pushing a real plan past Pelosi.  Let me backup, a real plan will not make it through Pelosi.

Let me explain it in GEEK terms:
Registry entries have been written(by the House Financial Services Committee) that have caused an error, and debugging the problem would require closing some programs that the current user is unwilling close because data will be lost.  A few more keystrokes and the error will be a fatal error, requiring a system re-boot.

Choices:
1. Close some programs losing some data, and run debug script.
2. Allow system to reset and lose all data.

I am preparing for a full system reset.  
Are you?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, it will only be the Big 2....Ford made their painful decisions back in 2005 and they have a plan that is actually executing very well.  Seen the new 2010 Taurus or Fusion?  Now THOSE are American cars I'd buy.

I've never seen a company sit in place and flail as wildly as GM.  Their inaction really pisses me off.  Chrysler may actually get something going with FIAT....what does GM have to show for?  A Volt?  **** that.  It will cost $42k....they need a car that sells millions and costs under 20k.

And if you think Pontiac is going to stick around...I have bad news for you.  It was not listed as a core brand and it will be the first to go, along with HUMMER and Saab.  Saab will get sold.  HUMMER may simply shutter because no one will buy that albatros.  Pontiac will shutter for sure.  They have no platforms unique to the brand.  

Saturn is going away too...they just sell rebadged Opels.

Chrysler as a brand could shut down too and no one would notice.  PT Cruiser is going away after this year. The Aspen is too. The T&C is just a Caravan....300C is a charger.  That just leaves the Sebring which is just an Avenger which both need to go away.

Avenger needs to stay; at the very least to provide parts for mine.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


The hat will hang on the VOLT.  The VOLT will fail.  40 miles on electricity AND a gas engine means it has duplicate systems.  Twice as many pieces to fail, twice the cost.  Other than as a novelty item, what use is it really?

For someone like me, it's perfectly conceived. I'd only have to use gas when I go to Arkansas about once a month. That would be great.

Not that I'll buy one. It's simply not cost effective. (no new car is, IMO)

You you could buy a Volt... or 4 Toyota Camrys...

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle


You you could buy a Volt... or 4 Toyota Camrys...

I hadn't seen the price tag. If they're really going to try to get 40 grand for it, they've gotta be on drugs.

A premium? Sure. But 40,000? I could buy a BMW for that. If you're spending that much, you might as well go all out and buy a Tesla Roadster if you really want an electric car.

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


The hat will hang on the VOLT.  The VOLT will fail.  40 miles on electricity AND a gas engine means it has duplicate systems.  Twice as many pieces to fail, twice the cost.  Other than as a novelty item, what use is it really?

For someone like me, it's perfectly conceived. I'd only have to use gas when I go to Arkansas about once a month. That would be great.

Not that I'll buy one. It's simply not cost effective. (no new car is, IMO)

You you could buy a Volt... or 4 Toyota Camrys...

Toyota actually sold more Camary's then all of the entire Chrysler line sold in the US.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, it will only be the Big 2....Ford made their painful decisions back in 2005 and they have a plan that is actually executing very well.  Seen the new 2010 Taurus or Fusion?  Now THOSE are American cars I'd buy.

I've never seen a company sit in place and flail as wildly as GM.  Their inaction really pisses me off.  Chrysler may actually get something going with FIAT....what does GM have to show for?  A Volt?  **** that.  It will cost $42k....they need a car that sells millions and costs under 20k.

And if you think Pontiac is going to stick around...I have bad news for you.  It was not listed as a core brand and it will be the first to go, along with HUMMER and Saab.  Saab will get sold.  HUMMER may simply shutter because no one will buy that albatros.  Pontiac will shutter for sure.  They have no platforms unique to the brand.  

Saturn is going away too...they just sell rebadged Opels.

Chrysler as a brand could shut down too and no one would notice.  PT Cruiser is going away after this year. The Aspen is too. The T&C is just a Caravan....300C is a charger.  That just leaves the Sebring which is just an Avenger which both need to go away.

Avenger needs to stay; at the very least to provide parts for mine.

there will always be a parts market....how do you think people keep their classic cars runnning... but there never should have been a market for crap like the Avenger.

Had mine for a year with nary a problem.  Two oil changes and two recall notices (painless).

I realize I have probably just jinxed myself.  I bought Dodge because the company I work for uses Chrysler for fleet vehicles and we were able to leverage discounts for the employees.  Deeper than any of the other auto companys would give.  As long as I have my lifetime powertrain warranty, I'm not going to fret over it.

[Conan71]

GM is in total denial in thinking they are "too big to fail."  I think they are banking on the government sentiment falling with all the workers who would be impacted should they go under.

I agree with a lot of the comments on here.  I especially see waste in duplicate branding of the same car through two or three lines.  Cadillac is supposed to be the most profitable line for GM.  They showed some sense in shuttering the Olds logo in 2003, but have not cut deep enough.  Combine Buick into Caddy, ****-can Hummer since the novelty has worn off on that, make Pontiac an SVO division of Chevy (so long as they can show a profit), scrap the GMC brand and sell off Saturn to the highest bidder.

GM doesn't seem to have cut back on its motorsports expenditures like Chrysler/Mopar and Ford.  Right now would be a prudent time to do some belt-tightening.

I was talking to an old friend of mine after the Chili Bowl last Saturday night who recieves major backing from GM in his racing operations.  It was hard not to ask if he was scared ****less if GM funding might dry up overnight.  Mopar's cut-backs in short track racing were obvious last week, vs. their presence in past racing seasons.  Ford has cut back dramatically as well.  

[waterboy]

I'm afraid I also agree with most of what's been posted, though I will miss the Vette. The Caddy had interesting style but was out of my price range. Otherwise GM has proved that no organization is too big or too stupid to fail.

Cut loose all their brands and let the market decide which ones survive. Then give incentives to the new buyer to rebuild the plants from scratch. If there is no buyer for Pontiac, Chevy, Buick and their myriad of product offerings...they die. The Volt is just plain too little too late.

My hope would be the trucks survive and someone buys the Corvette and Caddy.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Hoss
 As long as I have my lifetime powertrain warranty, I'm not going to fret over it.

i can just picture it now, sheet metal and electronics falling off the car, but the engine and tranny still work! [}:)]

plus, warranties don't mean much if the backing company is gone.

That's why Chrysler doesn't carry the warranty on it.  I also have a 7/60k rider for everything else.

Keep going though.

[:O]