Sunoco: Refinery v. Terminal?

[Hometown]

Rod Walton's 1-13-09 story in the local newspaper discusses Sunoco's difficulty in selling their Tulsa refinery and quotes Sunoco's spokesman Thomas Golembeski saying that the refinery will likely be converted to a "Terminal."

"Sunoco 'does not believe the investments required to make the refinery compliant and competitive make economic sense,' he added. 'In our view, any potential buyer would be faced with the same issues. We believe the terminal conversion is the most likely outcome.'"

Questions for the folks hereabouts that are knowledgeable about Tulsa's oil business:

What is the difference between a refinery and a terminal?  

Which one has greater or lesser environmental impact?

Which one has greater or lesser economic impact?

Would a terminal create odors and emissions like the current refinery does?

[TURobY]

Is this what we are talking about?

Wikipedia

I've heard the term depot and terminal used interchangably, but I'm not sure if this is the intended object.

[cannon_fodder]

FYI he is quoting a Tulsa World article, available here:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=49&articleid=20090113_49_E1_TheSun512072

A terminal is basically a shipping and distribution location.  A refinery actually makes product.  They would use the tank farm and pipelines but essentially idle the refining elements of the plant.  

What I gather from the article is that if they don't find a buyer they will idle the production capacity and have dropped their $325 million plan to invest in the asset.  Wait until the next energy crisis for the next big push for any kind of improvement.  Refineries are a low margin product in the USA given our pollution standards, which is why none have been built in 50 years and we import more value added oil commodities.

375 people work there.  Many more have jobs manufacturing components for the refinery in local shops.  More still are on contract maintenance crews.  And even more work on the "turnaround" upgrades they must do about every rd year.  Not sure what product or services differences there would be, but I imagine Tulsa would lose jobs as a result of the conversion.  The land is so polluted that they can never abandon the site, so they will hold it on some minimum level of usage forever or until it is sold.

Part of a larger oil bust that is currently going on:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/01/28/afx5977743.html

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FYI he is quoting a Tulsa World article, available here:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=49&articleid=20090113_49_E1_TheSun512072

A terminal is basically a shipping and distribution location.  A refinery actually makes product.  They would use the tank farm and pipelines but essentially idle the refining elements of the plant.  

Yes, from my limited 5 years past experience working for Citgo, a terminal is strictly a shipping and loading point for tanker trucks and haulers to receive refined products and then deliver such products to retail sellers.  As I recall at the time, Citgo had about 70 or more "terminals" across the U.S. and most only employed 3-4 people each, at most.  To turn the Tulsa refinery into just a terminal would make it one, big-donkey terminal.

[Hometown]

Sounds like a terminal might be a net positive because of reduced toxins in the air.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Sounds like a terminal might be a net positive because of reduced toxins in the air.

Depends on if you were one of the 1,000 or so people who lost their jobs (340 at the refinery, 300 contract maintenance, 300 residual manufacturing jobs, and ancillary economic spin off).

[waterboy]

HT, a terminal is a simpler operation that will reduce the odors/emissions and effect less impact on the environment. In fact, much of the area from the Sun refinery upstream towards Chandler consists of storage and distribution terminals for different products. I suppose finished product would mostly be pipelined in, stored in tanks and distributed by tanker truck. Might be a greater increase in truck traffic. I would hope they would disassemble the thing but smarter money is on mothballing it in hopes of better, cheaper technology and higher retail prices.[]

Most people spend their lives near terminals without any notice of them. CF is right about that site being difficult to reclaim but it can be done. There are pipes that are a hundred years old whose leaks are collected and recyled. What a great spot to develop and run ferries across the river to Downtown Tulsa. Would have been smart to use some of the federal stimulus money directed towards similar problem sites across the country.

[Hometown]

Maybe the other refinery will also cancel improvements to refinery and decide to become a terminal as well.  I imagine there are a number of ways to improve Tulsa's refinery situation.  Where there is a will, there's a way.