Groundbreaking for new Courtyard by Marriott @ Atlas Life Building

[Hoss]

HAHAHA!  Now I realize why Grizzle wasn't there...Groundbreaking was at 2:00pm...not noon!  I see you posted at 12:16...HAHAHAHA!  Good way to look like a "Hee Haw, Hee Haw" slamming what was actually a great event to kick of a great thing for downtown.  ROFLMAO - now wheres that yahoo emoticon for dying laughing when you need one HAHAHAHA

Someone tell this poster's parents to limit their time at the keyboard.

[DowntownNow]

Again Grizzle, don't know where you got your information from but everyone from the Chamber, City, Press and others were all invited to a 2:00 groundbreaking and I know they weren't sitting there at 1:00 (unless they chose to eat at the Atlas).  That was 50+ people all having the correct time for the event, you somehow got it wrong or were misinformed.  But rather than man up and show a lil class in admitting either a mistake or falty information you chose to bash what was essentially a great thing for downtown.  Way to show support and appreciation for a project this group was essentially created to promote and encourage.

I'm wondering, as a Board member for TulsaNow, do you speak for all of them when representing such things on here?  I'd really hate to think so but I could be wrong I suppose.  Can see why developers would never want the input of people if this is the level of respect for their efforts they can expect.

[swake]

Again Grizzle, don't know where you got your information from but everyone from the Chamber, City, Press and others were all invited to a 2:00 groundbreaking and I know they weren't sitting there at 1:00 (unless they chose to eat at the Atlas).  That was 50+ people all having the correct time for the event, you somehow got it wrong or were misinformed.  But rather than man up and show a lil class in admitting either a mistake or falty information you chose to bash what was essentially a great thing for downtown.  Way to show support and appreciation for a project this group was essentially created to promote and encourage.

I'm wondering, as a Board member for TulsaNow, do you speak for all of them when representing such things on here?  I'd really hate to think so but I could be wrong I suppose.  Can see why developers would never want the input of people if this is the level of respect for their efforts they can expect.

you are a jerk David

[TheArtist]

Omg, it was a simple mistake. One we all have made. Not the end of the world.

[sgrizzle]

I was notified on March 5th that it was going to be at 1pm and then on around the 13th it was publicized as 2pm. As I said, Fox23 was there too so I wasn't the only one operating on bad info and I never make one single comment about the developer, the project or anything else. I had a 1:30 appt or I would've hung around later.

If I backed over your dog in a previous life, I'm sorry.

[DowntownNow]

I agree with you Artist, it was a mistake...I'm simply calling attention to Grizzle's comments belittling the effort put forward by the developers on a great project.  As is often the case in here, someone makes a comment without fact, distorts it to a detriment, others perceive it as truth and run with the same negativity that then gets back to the developers this group is supposed to support and then all are left wondering why they don't seek our support. 

You all might want to go back and read starting with Reply #3, 5-8 for a clue to what Im talking about.

[DowntownNow]

Swake...sorry if I'm wanting to hold someone that has a seat in an organization that is supposed to encourage and support development and growth in our City to a little higher standard than other posting members on here.  But that comes with the territory I would think.  The last thing I think we need is any negativity towards the efforts made by those trying to make Tulsa a better place, investing their money in downtown and who we want to listen to us in what we want to see as far as development.

Wouldnt have been so harsh if the comments didn't foster futher negative comments about the efforts made on this occassion, particularly in light of the fact that they were baseless and due to a mistake on the poster's part.

[TheArtist]

   I dont think Sgrizzle intended to belittle this project. I have seen him and others mention this project as a good thing numerous times. Sgrizzle has listed it as one of the positive things happening downtown. His "attempt" to go to the groundbreaking wasnt to belittle the project, but to support it. Now he did "belittle" what he thought was the ground breaking, but to be technical, that is different than belittling this project in general and would hope that people wouldnt take it as such. I think we all are excited about the project and what it means for downtown.  I know I am.  If the people developing this have taken offense. Let me be the first to apologize and would hope that we can find some way to make it up to them.  Frankly I could care less about how fancy or not someones ground breaking ceremony is, or even if they had one or not. But I do believe we should voice our support for a good business and developer. We have a tendency on here to be rather flippant and forget who may be reading this and how they may take it. I know I jumped all over HOKs first ballpark designs for instance, and probably wasnt as thoughtful as I should have been as to how I said things. My criticism wasnt a reflection of my not caring, but quite the opposite. We all err and boob up on occasion. I know I do.

Also, what is said on here by individuals, no matter what their office within the TN organization, should not be seen as an official opinion or stance of TN. We have to deliberate and vote on such things and we try to take our decisions as seriously as possible and back that decision even though it may not reflect our personal leanings. This forum is great for a free exchange of ideas and arguments, and I for one learn a LOT from it. I do think DowntownNow has a point that we who are on the TN board or governing structure should be more cautious in what we say. But, again, it is easy to get caught up in the day to day raucous character of this forum and forget. Forget that you are both an individual able to say and argue whatever you want, but may also be seen as a voice for an organization.

[sgrizzle]

I considered it pretty obvious that if I, and Fox23, were there and there was no pomp and circumstance, then we were there at the wrong time. I was not aware I needed to spell it out on my first post back to this thread. The only thing belittled was me and Fox23 celebrating the groundbreaking at the wrong time. Every poster, until DowntownNow arrived, made sarcastic posts about the error which again, I thought was obvious. I posted the event, and tried to make it, because I wholeheartedly support the project and those working on it.

While my opinion does not officially reflect the views of TulsaNow, I dare you to find a time was in conflict with TulsaNow's.

While we encourage all viewpoints and opinions to be shared, jumping on another forum poster repeatedly is generally not tolerated regardless of who they are. If you have something productive to discuss, please continue to use our forum. If you just want to yell at me, I can give you my email address or cell phone # and you can spare the rest of the poster's from your tirades. 

[DowntownNow]

Grizzle, you again miss the point and that's why I harp on you.  TheArtist got it, read his post.  He said it very well too.  In your posts prior to my stepping into this thread, you never once said you had made a mistake.  You posted matter of factly that you showed at 1:00pm, it was just you and a Fox23 camera guy and that you saw no effort of a groundbreaking by the developer, employing sarcasm with the "Woo." 

Based on that post, others didn't assume you made a mistake because you stated a mistaken matter of fact.  They didn'teven know when the groundbreaking was to being with, they simply leaped on to your sarcasm as to what you preceived was little to no effort on the part of the developer to have a meaningful groundbreaking and ran with it. 

It created negative feedback based on your mistake, and that negative feedback, no matter how embelished it is in a mistake can be read upon by developers in here looking at this material and make them sctratch their heads.  Had you come out and said "oops, I was wrong, the groundbreaking was at 2:00 and I missed it" I doubt the others would have commented about the way they then perceived the groundbreaking to have gone.

Can't spell it out any better than that...and I may have ran too harsh with my second reply but the level of sarcasm demonstrated irked me to no end when I see this forum as a good thing that backs up the principles of the organization it serves under.  I want developers to use this forum, I want them to ask for our opinions, I want everyone that cares enough to post to be a part of the process but comments like those will make a developer think twice about wanting any of that if they also have to contend with this while trying to move with the best of intentions.

[Hoss]

Too bad I can only give out good/bad karma once an hour....

[sgrizzle]

Based on that post, others didn't assume you made a mistake because you stated a mistaken matter of fact.  They didn'teven know when the groundbreaking was to being with, they simply leaped on to your sarcasm as to what you preceived was little to no effort on the part of the developer to have a meaningful groundbreaking and ran with it. 

Didn't the first post in this thread, and the linked event, say groundbreaking was 1pm on March 24th? Whether the time was wrong, the task of informing people of "when the groundbreaking was" was attempted.

It created negative feedback based on your mistake, and that negative feedback, no matter how embelished it is in a mistake can be read upon by developers in here looking at this material and make them sctratch their heads.  Had you come out and said "oops, I was wrong, the groundbreaking was at 2:00 and I missed it" I doubt the others would have commented about the way they then perceived the groundbreaking to have gone.

I didn't know when the correct time was at the time of my post. I tried contacting several people but they were likely all on the way to the real groundbreaking. I still so no replies to my comments that were in any way serious or derogatory until yours.

Can't spell it out any better than that...and I may have ran too harsh with my second reply but the level of sarcasm demonstrated irked me to no end when I see this forum as a good thing that backs up the principles of the organization it serves under.  I want developers to use this forum, I want them to ask for our opinions, I want everyone that cares enough to post to be a part of the process but comments like those will make a developer think twice about wanting any of that if they also have to contend with this while trying to move with the best of intentions.

My motivations are the same as yours, that is why I started the thread to begin with. My motivations in comments following my 1pm arrival were lampooning myself and anyone who followed my event posting (apparently Fox23.) I never "ROTFL"ed my "AO" at the developers, the project, or anyone else. I've never thought making fun of others was the way to attract professionals to participate in a discussion, even though it does seem common place amongst many professionals who post under aliases.

P.S. Your typing goes downhill when you get frustrated.

[OpenYourEyesTulsa]

I work in the building next door and I went down to the ground breaking at 2pm because I saw the time on a website.  It was so crowded with suits that I just went back to work.  I also hoped to get some free food but I could not see any because of all the people. 

[cannon_fodder]

I don't think I saw anyone belittling the project or the developers.   Sarcastic responses to a perceived lackluster groundbreaking - yes.  But that says nothing about the merits of the project or anyone involved.

Perhaps it would have been more effective to just say "the actual groundbreaking was at 2pm and was well attended and very nice.  Perhaps you had your times mixed up.  Please make sure you are at the event at the right time before declaring it a bust."    In such a way you get to point out your disdain for Grizzle and correct the record.

If your interest was in correcting the mistake portrayed in this thread and getting in a jab, the latter response seems much more appropriate.   If your intent is to whine and moan about how incompetent and evil you think Scott Grizzle is and secondarily correct the record, then the action you took is the better course of action.  Though in doing so it appears most people have been convinced to take a negative perspective on the poster instead of the target.

But in any and all events, I fail to see a correlation between a negative impression of the groundbreaking and belittling the project and developers as a whole.  It was getting the time of a meeting wrong which led to a false impression.  Nothing more.  Thank god I don't go off on clients every time they get the time of a meeting wrong or someone doesn't go off on me when I miss something.