Tulsa a Dying City?

[Renaissance]

^ Wow.

[TheArtist]

ummm yea,   Someone needs to get out more.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

ummm yea,   Someone needs to get out more.

Wonder what was in his eggnog

[RecycleMichael]

I was over on the TyreNow.org website reading about harlots and oppressed virgins and a link brought me to TulsaNow...

That was some fine babble there, Rhymnrzm.

My favorite line was "Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste". It has encouraged me to start recycling.

The ending says it all. It is all about durable clothing..

[TheArtist]

Does that mean polyester is back in?

[tim huntzinger]

I get Tyred just trying to figure all that out . . .

[USRufnex]

"..a garment mingled of linen and woolen shall not be worn by you."

So, I'm guessing 100% Polyester is durable clothing... but a poly/cotton blend?... hmmm... there's nothing in the good book about wearing garments mingled with fossil fuels...

What were we talking about?  []

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Building and widening more roads out to the suburbs promotes people living in the suburbs, not them living in the urban areas. As long as its easier to build out not up, people will. As long as it costs less and is easier to build in an empty field than in the central core, people will.  As long as people keep moving out and spreading out, so will the businesses that cater to them.


Money that could be used to improve the urban areas is instead used for building ever more roads, then widening them, paying for upkeep, paying to police larger sprawling areas, more fire departments, sewage/water, and all kinds of other infrastructure and services.  Its not as though the population of the city is growing so rapidly that it really needs to be spending all the money to do that. Its basically the same population just spreading out further and further along with the tax dollars trying to keep up with the sprawl.

When Tulsa was called the most beautiful city in America its central core had population densities of around 3,000 people per square mile. Which makes for a very efficient use of tax dollars to maintain and have the best infrastructure in a small area versus today having people spread out over a much larger area.   Then they complain about traffic and want roads widened and those who want to live in a dense, urban, walkable area are quite hard pressed to find that in Tulsa because there is no longer the density to support it.

The city of Tulsa need not be in the business of promoting suburban growth.  The suburbs are quite capable of doing that. Tulsa needs to spend its time, money and effort promoting urban growth, becoming a city. Trust me, the suburbs will take care of themselves.  

The time when Tulsa could go it alone is long gone. Tulsa's CSA is estimate now at about 940,000 people according to the US Census. That same estimate says the city is down to around 370,000 residents. The people that live in the suburbs now outnumber the people in the city of Tulsa nearly 2 to 1.

The metro is going to sink or swim together, the metro and city are not large enough to have distinct economic bases. The only distinction happens because of Oklahoma's quirk where most city funding is through sales taxes so the actual specific location of retail centers becomes meaningful.

And don't be misled. Tulsa is a big winner in the retail location game. Look at all the retail in Tulsa but right on the edge of the suburbs. This is true for Broken Arrow, Bixby and Jenks. Not to mention all the specialty retail that doesn't exist outside the city. Much more money flows into Tulsa in the form of sales tax coming in from the 'burbs than flows out. Bad road and traffic are only going to make the 570,000 people that live in metro Tulsa but not in the city more likely not to travel into Tulsa.

Tulsa is hurting because the suburbs are keeping more of their own residents sales tax money. But more than that all cities are hurting because more and more services are put on them by the state and feds while they get less and less money from those sources.

The money problem is fixable, cities in Oklahoma can asses income taxes and gas taxes and both would really help the budget, but who would vote for such an expansion of taxes?

The path to a great city to have healthy quality suburbs and quality urban core. And the only reason that Vision 2025 passed, was because it was a countywide vote. The areas outside of the city voted for it, overwhelmingly. Similar issues failed twice as city questions.

If the city and suburbs don't work together, then Tulsa, city and suburban, are in trouble.

How is that sales tax collection going out in Jenks? Not so good, huh. Let's see, when Tulsa takes steps to end it's donor status to the burbs and stands up for it's own interests to the County, sales taxes improve and the economy grows. Could it be that Tulsans have stopped spending money out there because of the arrogant, demanding, inflexible, attitudes of Jenk's city leaders whose inflated egos led them to think they could throw their weight around and dictate how Tulsa will do things. Big mistake there, because they awoke a sleeping giant and got crushed likes bugs under foot. Tough luck, on your bridge there. Poor Vreeland must be crying himself to sleep at night since this bridge scam will not go forward without a vote of a very skeptical public. It seems to me that the burbs need Tulsa more than Tulsa needs the burbs.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by rhymnrzn

The Bible casts the mold for this city Tulsa, who is likened unto Tyre in the following similitude.  Tulsa is destined to become one of the points of convergence for the four corners.

The parable contained in the following passage is accurate and multifaceted: I recommend the readers to meditate upon it.

Isaiah 23:1

"The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of Tarshish; for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them. (v.2) Be still, ye inhabitants of the isle; thou whom the merchants of Zidon, that pass over the sea, have replenished. (v.3)  And by great waters the seed of Sihor, the harvest of the river, is her revenue; and she is a mart of nations. (v.4) Be thou ashamed, O Zidon: for the sea hath spoken, even the strength of the sea, saying, I travail not, nor bring forth children, neither do I nourish up young men, nor bring up virgins. (v.5) As at the report concerning Egypt, so shall they be sorely pained at the report of Tyre. (v.6) Pass ye over to Tarshish; howl, ye inhabitants of the isle. (v.7) Is this your joyous city, whose antiquity is of ancient days? her own feet shall carry her afar off to sojourn. (v. Who hath taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning city, whose merchants are princes, whose traffickers are the honourable of the earth? (v.9) The LORD of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth. (v.10) Pass through thy land as a river, O daughter of Tarshish: there is no more strength. (v.11) He stretched out his hand over the sea, he shook the kingdoms: the LORD hath given a commandment against the merchant city, to destroy the strong holds thereof. (v.12) And he said, Thou shalt no more rejoice, O thou oppressed virgin, daughter of Zidon: arise, pass over to Chittim; there also shalt thou have no rest. (v.13) Behold the land of the Chaldeans; this people was not, till the Assyrian founded it for them that dwell in the wilderness: they set up the towers thereof, they raised up the palaces thereof; and he brought it to ruin. (v.14) Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste. (v.15) And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. (v.16) Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. (v.17) And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. (v.18) And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the LORD: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the LORD, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing."

When we link these traits, we realize that this Tyre is a shadow of the image, and a daughter of the Mother, of the MYSTERY BABYLON, who would be revealed in the last time.


We are in the middle of it all.

Let me guess, you think Jesus was born in the year zero, right?  Evolution and Creation, mutually exclusive?  Did you build a bomb shelter for Y2K?  I'm all for religious diversity, but some people are just so far out there...
What ever happened to the education half of the subject "religious education?"

[Renaissance]

^Don't feed the trolls.

On topic: this article in the Tulsa World.  Dying?  Not quite by the numbers.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061228_To_A1_Areaj37599

Area job numbers booming
By LAURIE WINSLOW World Staff Writer
12/28/2006

November proved to be another positive month for job growth in the Tulsa area, sending employment totals into record territory.

Not only did the seven-county metropolitan area add jobs during the month, but it also posted over-the-year job gains as well, according to preliminary data released Wednesday by the Oklahoma Employment Security Commission.

While the area added 1,600 jobs during the month, it recorded a gain of 10,400 jobs over November 2005. Total nonfarm employment for the area rose to 429,700, up from a revised 428,100 in October.

The Tulsa metro area earlier this year marked its recovery from a sharp economic downturn that saw it lose 28,000 jobs from 2001 to 2003. In May, the area surpassed its previous record employment total of 421,200, set in December 2000.

November's numbers continued a pattern in which the metro area has posted over-the-year job gains every month this year and in 2005.

The Tulsa area's unemployment rate held steady at 3.5 percent for the month. A year earlier, it was 3.9 percent.

"Going into the new year, it bodes well for a strong year that will surpass certainly the U.S. and the state economy," said Bob Ball, research manager for the Tulsa Metro Chamber.

Ball noted that the Tulsa area accounted for 52 percent of Oklahoma's over-the-year nonfarm job gains in November. The state had 19,900 more nonfarm jobs than it had in November 2005.

Economists have noted how an economic slowdown at the national level should soften growth for both the state and metro area next year. Even with the downturn, however, the Tulsa area is still expected to add jobs next year and lead the state in job growth.

Job gains for the Tulsa area in 2007 are projected for health-care services; professional, scientific and technical services; and state and local government, according to a recent economic report.

The Tulsa area's labor force -- the number of people working or looking for work -- was 464,480 in November, according to the Oklahoma Employment Security Commission. Overall employment, which includes farm jobs and self-employed people, was 448,110.

The number of unemployed people totaled 16,370.

Among individual sectors, the metro area's manufacturing was strong in November, adding 1,000 jobs from a year earlier for a 2.1 percent gain, Ball said. The sector lost 100 jobs during the month, however.

Basically, all of the Tulsa area's manufacturing growth has been in machinery manufacturing, Ball said.

Tulsa's professional and business services continued to add jobs on an over-the-year basis, with 3,600 more jobs than a year earlier. It gained 100 jobs over the month.

And Tulsa's education and health services added 300 jobs over the month and 1,600 jobs over the year in November, according to the commission.

Of the state's other two metro areas, Oklahoma City's jobless rate rose to 3.6 percent in November, while Lawton's increased to 4.4 percent.

Oklahoma's unemployment rate rose to 3.7 percent.

[aoxamaxoa]

"The number of unemployed people totaled 16,370."

"Among individual sectors, the metro area's manufacturing was strong in November, adding 1,000 jobs from a year earlier for a 2.1 percent gain, Ball said. The sector lost 100 jobs during the month, however."


These statements maketh me think this piece is propaganda. How to lie with statistics?

[rhymnrzn]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

^Don't feed the trolls.

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