THe monster that's eating 11th St. (TU) question

[cannon_fodder]

Sorry for lurking and replying to old threads, but if its from this year... its still game.

Anyway:

1) The only harm TU is accused of is buying up property in its neighborhood.

Without TU, that neighborhood would probably be crap by now.  I dont know if you have driven down 11th Street lately, but you dont have to get too terribly far from TU in either direction to get kinda scary.  Certainly there wouldnt be a strip of shops and restaurants sitting there without TU.  Nor would there property values be so high for 1940's 900sq houses.

Furthermore, dont pretend like TU destroyed the Sistine Chapel to put in a parking lot. TU devoured its own run-down buildings, a head shop and attached business, a half dozen empty lots, a closed sports bar, and a diner.  The diner being the only real loss IMHO.  Even then, the diner could reopen nearby (or in the re-developing Pearl district to catch the downtown crowd for lunch, still on 66!) if it chose to but he wont.  The owner will take his check and retire as most small businesses would do.  TU also buys many life estates in the surrounding area - it rarely flexes its political muscle and tries to force people out.  

So... the bad: closed Metro Diner.

The Good:  Draws national and international caliber students to Tulsa.  Provides sports and entertainment in many various forms to the community.  Helps draw national attention to the city in a wide range of areas (from sports, to academics, to conference it hosts, and competitions it wins).  Provides a highly educated work force to Tulsa's industries.  Pumps hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy via payroll, products and services purchased, people traveling to TU for games/conference, etc., and of course students moving to Tulsa and spending their money while living here.  Provides endless opportunities for those interested in hearing speakers, concerts, or seeing art exhibits.  Provides public radio to the area. Is active in the community in innumerable philanthropic activities from donations, to the College of Law's legal clinic, to individual student or student group efforts.     And many, many more items than I dont even need to bother listing.

I think its safe to say the GOOD > the BAD provided by TU

I dont get the whole through access thing... it would be nearly impossible to have streets go through campus as there are buildings, a huge "U" green, stadiums, and housing in the way.  The streets that are no longer through streets have been closed for nearly  hundred years, unless there is some street I cant think of.

2) As per the law school being third tier - I suggest you research the criteria for US News rankings before judging anything by it.  The most heavily weighted part is an opinion poll of attorney's.  Obviously this favors larger schools who have more alumni on the bench as well as high profile institutions (many people on the coasts struggle to find Oklahoma and may not have ever heard of the city of Tulsa, let alone the University's school of law).  Another guideline is how much they pay their faculty and what names they were able to attract.  While TU has several world renowned scholars in some areas (Petroleum, Health Law, Sports Law, and Indian Law among the) it cannot afford the roster of other schools.

While clearly TU College of Law cannot attract nor retain the quality of staff and student as an ivy league school, the rankings dont tell the whole story.  If baseball were ranked this way instead of playing games, the Yankees would win every year because everyone loves or hates them, the attract the names, and spend the money.  Who cares if they can produce wins.

Check out on TU Law does in national competitions or how well the graduates do in their careers.

3) Richard:  A private entity cannot use Eminent  Domain and take property, they have to buy it.  The owner of Metro refused to sell for even twice the assessed value of the property. The city forced the sale of the building and then resold it to the University.

The use of eminent domain is regrettable, I wish the University was able to find a way to make it work on a voluntary basis. But it wasnt a case of handing the property over for $1 to TU.  Hell, even if it was, the city gets more bang for their buck with TU than any of its other programs...

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Without TU, that neighborhood would probably be crap by now.

Could be a Chicken-Vs-Egg argument...
What shape would the neighborhood have been in had TU not successively driven down resale values by systematically targeting properties for "future expansions" and "5-year plans"?

[cannon_fodder]

Why does the Unviersity's planned purchase of property drive prices down?  It seems to me the area houses being purchased drives prices up.  Furthermore, demolitoin of avilable housing further drives prices up because less are available.  

Anyway, my observation is that the areas similar to TU are run down and the prices severely depressed.  All along 11th Street the housing market is horrible.  Likewise, most place North of TU have fallen into disrepair, a trend seemingly stopped by the Unviversity.  This trend is repeated to the East of the Unviersity, where the neighborhood is still well kept and values high.  West of TU such is often not the case.  Plus, in my expirience, property values near any unviersity are much higher copared with simliar areas int he city.

In any event, if you were a member of the board at TU how would you suggest the University grow and continue to compete on a world stage?

[Leah]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

3) Richard:  A private entity cannot use Eminent  Domain and take property, they have to buy it.  The owner of Metro refused to sell for even twice the assessed value of the property. The city forced the sale of the building and then resold it to the University.

The use of eminent domain is regrettable, I wish the University was able to find a way to make it work on a voluntary basis. But it wasnt a case of handing the property over for $1 to TU.  Hell, even if it was, the city gets more bang for their buck with TU than any of its other programs...

I dont think the city has the right to use eminent domain for any reason.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Leah

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

3) Richard:  A private entity cannot use Eminent  Domain and take property, they have to buy it.  The owner of Metro refused to sell for even twice the assessed value of the property. The city forced the sale of the building and then resold it to the University.

The use of eminent domain is regrettable, I wish the University was able to find a way to make it work on a voluntary basis. But it wasnt a case of handing the property over for $1 to TU.  Hell, even if it was, the city gets more bang for their buck with TU than any of its other programs...

I dont think the city has the right to use eminent domain for any reason.

Well, they do have the right. You may feel that they shouldn't but it has a good reason for being. It was designed to make sure that one party or the other did not become so unreasonable as to seriously hamper the public's interest. I am all for private rights but greed and dishonesty have to be ocassionally balanced off with this tool. Recently its abuse to favor one owner over another has angered us all. I think I read the state of Oklahoma passed legislation to limit eminent domain to its original purpose.

[cannon_fodder]

Well put Waterboy.  I prefer a restricted use of eminent domain also, especially in instances where private property is being taken to allow another to make financial gains (per the now famous case).

Most entities get around this by forming shadow corporations that slowly buy up land (Wal-Mart might for "Tulsa House Rental" to buy up property under the guise of building apartments, if someone knew they were selling out to Wal-Mart they would jack up the prices).  However, a University is not capable of pulling this rouse AND isnt in it for personal financial gain.  Universities are generally deemed to be for the public good.  Still... they should negotiate, so it kinda screws with my mind.