Stop thinking about E85, start thinking CNG

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

[B)][B)][B)]

Roughly $6 to $6.25 a gallon.  I'd be looking for something that got 75 mpg too!

Thats why you don't see Dodge Rams in the UK.

[RecycleMichael]

Here is a local web-site to help us all with our transportation desires.

http://www.green-traveler.org/

[Conan71]

RM- I looked up the list of flex-fuel vehicles from the E85 link.  

Greta Van Susteren (sp?) has been doing pieces on ethanol the last few nights.  When she was interviewing Pres. Bush she said the people who picked her and her crew up when they went to tour an ethanol plant were unaware the vehicle they were driving was flex fuel.

There are a lot of cars out there from the list that I'm sure plenty of owners are unaware they are driving an FF car.

[inteller]

i like E85 and all, but the cost differential between it and regular gas is just not compelling, considering it has less energy per gallon (but more power).  I guess in an ideal world I'd like a E100 powered sports car and a Civic GX to go to work.

a year ago I would have said go E85, but there are no gas stations here and none for the near future  By the time OK gets signifigant ethanol infrastructure hydrogen will be a lot closer to reality.

[cannon_fodder]

In spite of what my friends in Iowa think, ethanol from corn is not the answer.  There is even some debate on whether or not it produces or consumes energy (tractors use diesel to grow the seed, harvest, transport sort, and deliver it.  Then again to till, plant, fertilize, spray and again harvest.  Then they dry it.  Transport it. Then start to make ethanol out of it which also uses energy.  Then the ethanol is transporter yet again).  Though most sources believe it does actually produce energy, it will quickly become horribly expensive.

We only grow so much corn.  And corn only grows in desirably soil.  So as we use more and more for ethanol our poultry, beef, and other food stocks will become more expensive.  Duh.

Grasses or other items are more likely long term solutions for ethanol.

[RecycleMichael]

Switchgrass grows up to 12 feet tall and makes up to 10 tons of plant material per acre. Using biomass materials like switchqrass are also more efficient than corn in producing ethanol.

Using corn grain to produce ethanol is relatively energy-inefficient when compared to utilizing biomass. Producing ethanol from corn grain generates about 1.4 times as much energy as the process consumes when pesticides and fossil fuels are factored in. The energy yield from cellulosic materials is closer to 10-to-1.

The real difference why corn is used almost exclusively is because of the corn lobby. Most corn is produced in the Corn Belt of the upper Midwest, an area that benefits from the 52 cents per gallon federal tax credit for producing ethanol.

[Conan71]

I get annoyed when the "we need to start looking at alternative fuels" crowd pipes up.  If they really had any knowledge or concern about being less dependent on petroleum exports or lower emissions, they would know the research has been on-going for years, and is continuing into more viable technology.

This stuff doesn't happen overnight.  The evolution of the internal combustion engine to where it would burn petroleum as efficiently as it does now has taken over 100 years.

[rwarn17588]

I think one of the big things in the next 10 years are plug-in hybrids in which you can connect your car to solar panels to charge them up. Solar energy is likely going to be very competitive soon.

And if you have a really long road trip coming, you can still burn petrol in the hybrid car.