TPD add sticks to arsenal!

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

You forgot to mention that Troopers discovered approx. 180 pounds of marijuana in the truck after it crashed.

No, I didnt forget, as that was information that was discovered long after the fact and had nothing to do with the trooper's decision to use deadly force.

Finding out Tuesday that someone didnt go to church on Sunday wouldnt justify me having peed in their coffee on Monday, would it?

Now we know why he didn't stop. Everyone has a reason for running, his was just a 180 pound reason. Do you think he wishes he would have just pulled over now and took the chances in court for the marijuana instead of killing his friend?

[patric]

Im sure he wishes he had given a wider berth to a touchy driver and not ended up on the receiving end of some road rage.

[cannon_fodder]

Patric:

1) Those statistics include in them the people being chased.  Personally, if you are overtly running from the cops AND endangering the public and get killed in the process - I do not consider that a great loss.  Frankly, its par for the course.

2) Ignoring that, facially it does more harm than good.  HOWEVER, without the knowledge that you will be chased and more than likely caught... many, many more people would run.  Why not?  If they are not allowed to chase and you are in a stolen vehicle, have fake plates, or simply an unregistered vehicle you are home free.

Have you considered the consequences of not chasing?  Essentially, anyone with a stolen plate will be able to do as they please so long as they endanger the public.  That's not a good precedent.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Have you considered the consequences of not chasing?  Essentially, anyone with a stolen plate will be able to do as they please so long as they endanger the public.  That's not a good precedent.

I agree with you in that there are circumstances where it is appropriate, but minor traffic infractions or someone getting a little irritated because someone else didnt pull over far enough doesnt justify an aggressive pursuit.

High-speed pursuits, justified or not, are the vehicular equivalent of firing a gun into a crowd.

If LEO's were held to the same level of accountability that you and I are, they might apply a more responsible and prudent standard before initiating a pursuit (as they do in other communities).  As it is now, it's too easy to point the finger of blame elsewhere when their decision turns to tragedy.

Lets say that someone, fearful of loosing an argument, punched another and insisted that the victim's actions were to blame for escalating a discussion into an assault.  Would be pretty chicken$h|t of them, wouldnt it?

We average a high-speed pursuit a day, and there is bound to be a percentage where there werent any other options.  What I have problems with is our complacency in accepting that it's standard procedure to allow traffic problems to escalate to deadly force.

[cannon_fodder]

I agree that it isnt warranted in all circumstances.  However, most criminals will not do that analysis.  All they will know is that 50+% of the time the TPD does not chase and the criminal gets away.  So they will run.  It may actually INCREASE chases in the long run - since currently, the generally held belief is that running just adds to your sentence.

Perhaps they could better utilize the TPD chopper and this wouldn't be an issue.

[Wilbur]

I don't remember the exact stats, but I believe Tulsa's pursuits were started by the violator because of an underlying felony in 70% of the pursuits.  In other words, pursuits were started (generally because of a traffic violation) and, after the pursuit was over, it was found that another felony was involved in 70% of the cases.

Tulsa's pursuits end with a little more then 85% of the offenders being arrested.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Perhaps they could better utilize the TPD chopper and this wouldn't be an issue.

You're probably right, and I recall that the biggest selling point for Tulsa getting it's first helicopter in the first place was that it would eliminate the need for high-speed pursuits.
I suspect, however the biggest barrier to reform has more to do with mindset than mechanics.

By 1990, a slightly less optimistic Tulsa World commented on how the helicopter was supposed to help the department reform it's deadly force policy:

"The Tulsa Police helicopter has changed the way officers pursue fleeing vehicles and made roadblocks and ramming less necessary, Robison said. The helicopter can follow fleeing suspects from above, allowing officers on the ground to stay away from dangerous high-speed chases or risky maneuvers."  
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=104644
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=314711