It is all for the children?

[restored2x]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

D'ja ever notice those sound barrier walls along 71st never seem to get the graffiti midtown/downtown walls get? Are they raising more respectful children?[]

I guess if ya can't build a grafitti-proof wall - you just build grafitti-proof kids. Stepford Wives - but kids, yeah, Stepford Kids in South Tulsa!

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

D'ja ever notice those sound barrier walls along 71st never seem to get the graffiti midtown/downtown walls get? Are they raising more respectful children?[]

Reminds me of the scene in The Naked Gun where they were testing the "anit" graffiti walls...

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Venting to a charcoal filter or up high (say through a flagpole) is not an option?  Moving the entire lift,a s I recall, was prohibitively expensive.  There has to be innovative ways to correct the problem.

Yes there are innovative ways.  To the tune of $50mm to $500mm according to the Tulsa World yesterday.

This is one of the issues I've raised over on development after a story in the Tulsa World talked about the stench issue yesterday.

We have a sewage treatment plant and associated structures and processes stretching from about W. 45th street to just south of I-44 on the west bank.  Then there are sludge drying beds at the 71st St. bridge.

What I envision happening with this development plan, is new commercial development will take place, tennants will complain about the odor, then we could be on the hook for $50mm to $500mm to abate the problem.

It's just like developers who build homes under an existing major airport flight path, then the new neighbors complain about all the noise and expect the rest of the tax payers to absorb the cost of remediation.

Developable area between 51st & the pedestrian bridge are surrounded on both ends by a refinery and sewage plant.  From 31st to 11th it's got a refinery on either end.

That's one reason I'm going to vote "no".  The costs won't end with this development.  It's not even close to a slam dunk.

[shadows]

How would one feel sitting down to one of those $300 dollar meals and the smell of the human waste is stronger than the smell of the T-bone you are trying to eat.

Imagine the waiter holding the white cloth over his nose when placing the tray with your bill on the table.

If we must have a river project we should get a quote on moving the river.   That could be cheaper.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

How would one feel sitting down to one of those $300 dollar meals and the smell of the human waste is stronger than the smell of the T-bone you are trying to eat.

Imagine the waiter holding the white cloth over his nose when placing the tray with your bill on the table.

If we must have a river project we should get a quote on moving the river.   That could be cheaper.

Bankers who are the financiers of Developer Dreams look at one key aspect of a proposed development:

They look at the ABSORPTION rate of the type of facility being developed.

Whether the development is Retail, Commercial Office, Residential, Industrial, or Mixed-use, the bankers carefully study whether their is adequate DEMAND to ABSORB the new development.

On something as mammoth as what is being proposed in the Kaiser River Tax, where is the ANALYSIS to show that this supposed EXPOSION in river development has the demand to Absorb what will be newly built?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by shadows

How would one feel sitting down to one of those $300 dollar meals and the smell of the human waste is stronger than the smell of the T-bone you are trying to eat.

Imagine the waiter holding the white cloth over his nose when placing the tray with your bill on the table.

If we must have a river project we should get a quote on moving the river.   That could be cheaper.

Bankers who are the financiers of Developer Dreams look at one key aspect of a proposed development:

They look at the ABSORPTION rate of the type of facility being developed.

Whether the development is Retail, Commercial Office, Residential, Industrial, or Mixed-use, the bankers carefully study whether their is adequate DEMAND to ABSORB the new development.

On something as mammoth as what is being proposed in the Kaiser River Tax, where is the ANALYSIS to show that this supposed EXPOSION in river development has the demand to Absorb what will be newly built?

They may look at it but they don't seem to be understanding what they see. All over south Tulsa new shopping centers and housing developments have been built even though existing housing and shopping was adequate. The result was that the existing centers have been leapfrogged and suffer as new development sucks the business farther and farther south.

One might surmise that its the profit from the business of loaning money that keeps them doing that.

[jackbristow]

quote:They may look at it but they don't seem to be understanding what they see. All over south Tulsa new shopping centers and housing developments have been built even though existing housing and shopping was adequate. The result was that the existing centers have been leapfrogged and suffer as new development sucks the business farther and farther south.

One might surmise that its the profit from the business of loaning money that keeps them doing that.

New stores are built because different business people come in and see a potential business opportunity.  They build something they think is better than what is there or in a place where they think there is demand.  It's capitalism.  There is no ultimate authority who determines where stores are needed.  Owners decide based on the market.  

Those loans make the banks money, yes, but the banks aren't the ones opening the businesses.  People who want to make a profit and have a successful business are.  Welcome to the free market.  It's called competition.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by jackbristow

quote:They may look at it but they don't seem to be understanding what they see. All over south Tulsa new shopping centers and housing developments have been built even though existing housing and shopping was adequate. The result was that the existing centers have been leapfrogged and suffer as new development sucks the business farther and farther south.

One might surmise that its the profit from the business of loaning money that keeps them doing that.

New stores are built because different business people come in and see a potential business opportunity.  They build something they think is better than what is there or in a place where they think there is demand.  It's capitalism.  There is no ultimate authority who determines where stores are needed.  Owners decide based on the market.  

Those loans make the banks money, yes, but the banks aren't the ones opening the businesses.  People who want to make a profit and have a successful business are.  Welcome to the free market.  It's called competition.

Don't be condescending. I responded to his saying that banks require studies showing that areas are not overbuilt. They may do that but they're more interested in your ability to repay the loan. Loaning money is what keeps them in business. I am quite familiar with capitalism, free markets and competition.