Upping The Ante On The River

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by South County

FYI - Glenpool starts at 121st and HWY 75. The traffic light for GP is at 141st. The lights you can see from the Creek TP is 111th, which is all Jenks.

I think the closest Glenpool comes to the river is about 3 to 4 miles.

Thanks. Can't argue that. 3-4 miles is not much.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by twizzler

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I really do think we need to find another way to pay for things in our cities other than a sales tax. Regardless of how the total tax burden in our state ranks. Its still at best pshychologically a negative to have such an almost 10% tax on the things you buy. I may be used to it and just automatically figure it that way anyway, but an out of towner isnt going to know that we dont have a city income tax, low property and utility taxes, etc. There is no way people are going to allow it to hit or go over that 10% mark. Gleenpool is maxed out.

However I dont agree that they cant be positively affected by improvements along the river. They are going to be the next growth area after Jenks anyway as property is sapped up by developers following the heard south. Some aquaintances the other day called all excited that they had found some property near the beach in their price range in SF. It was only 10 miles from the beach! Here if something is 10 miles away people act as if its on the other side of the planet and has nothing to do with them. Its really odd actually how many people judge distances around here. Just how far is Glenpool from the river or Tulsa?

Not far at all. As I enter the Creek expressway each morning, the traffic lights for Glenpool are within sight. Once you are on the Creek, you reach the site of RiverWalk within minutes. About 3miles. They stand to be the bedroom community for Jenks and reap much benefit. Owasso has a better case for opposition than Glenpool. BA has blinders on.

Sales taxes are regressive but a 1/4 cent is not too difficult for anyone. There is a lot of sour grapes going on right now within these "non" river towns. They want to grow with our help, and off of our tax base, but they don't like to admit that the growth comes with strings and is tenous. We decline, the ripple will be felt there later.

The answer is increasingly obvious. A city income tax will force the outlying communities to face up to their dependence on Tulsa jobs and infrastructure that fuel their growth and make them pay their share.

I think when the final vote is tallied there will be just as much opposition to the River Tax within the city of Tulsa itself, as in the suburbs.

I posted the following on another thread:

Maybe the River Tax is just a poorly designed plan. I don't mean the projects themselves, but the execution of the plan to get it to pass. I think the original thought was that the 'free' money from the private donors would be enough to push this through. But they were wrong.

Many in north Tulsa, east Tulsa and the suburbs feel left out of this. Sure the river has importance but many residents would prefer neighborhood park improvements and county beautification projects in addition to some river development.

Look at the city and county tax proposals over the last 15 years that have passed or failed.

The ones that passed - Vision 2025, 4-to-Fix, local school bond issues - all have one thing in common. The projects were equitably spread out to every area of the city/county/school district.

The votes that failed - Tulsa arena/convention center projects, library bond issue - had most of the projects funds concentrated on one part of the city/county.

Hey, thanks. I guess you thought it was so important you had to keep posting it. I posted this in response to you on another thread.

"Downtown, Pearl, Cherry Street, Brookside, Tulsa Hills, Red Fork, Osage casino and future northside retail, RiverWalk, Owasso, Broken Arrow, Sand Springs, Jenks, Bixby and the county in general all will benefit from the development of the river when Tulsa is perceived as a destination for entertainment, dining, arts and recreation. The river area would be our anchor tenant. You don't have to be flashy, but you have to be something. It's up to the surrounding areas to coat tail off the momentum. You get all that for 1/4cent for 7 years or less."

And this, "NOTE: The whole city, in fact the whole region, reaps benefit from development in any quandrant of the city. If we were building it JUST for Tulsans I would agree with you but we aren't and we shouldn't. Shifting money around from one quadrant to another is a loser idea. This brings in regional and out of state money. Do you have any idea why we are celebrating a state centennial in such a big way? It is to bring in $$ from all over the country, not just from our state. If we are attractive to young professionals, students, empty nesters, so much the better. We want these people because they are at the peak buying stage of their lives. They have more disposable income than any other stage of life until retirement. They are buying first cars, first homes, new lawn mowers, baby equipment and on and on. They are the life blood of a community. The rest of us whimper about bad roads, not enough park land, and school systems."

Just in case you missed it.

[chesty]

A city income tax will do nothing but push people out of the city to where living is cheaper.

Look at property taxes for example.  Broken Arrow has a millage rate of 126.09 in Tulsa county.  Several people are already figuring out that if you move just a little to the east, into Wagoner county, you still get all the benefits of BA schools, but you millage rate is 113.28.  Still high by Oklahoma standards, but cheaper to live.

Charge a city income tax and the people will slowly but surely mosey out to the other counties  and just drive to their work or completely relocate to another metropolitan area.

Over the last year Tulsa County's median income has dropped over $2000.  This is a result of many high paying jobs leaving the Tulsa area.  I argue that this is partly due to the fact that residents of Tulsa County are taxed too high to attract new jobs and has reached the point where a decline is happening.

Solution:  We start election officials who are fiscally responsible and look out after their constituents, not their own interests and friends.  They have to make hard decisions on priorities and start looking at the "not so sexy" projects that need to be done before we can become a growing economy again.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by chesty

A city income tax will do nothing but push people out of the city to where living is cheaper.

Look at property taxes for example.  Broken Arrow has a millage rate of 126.09 in Tulsa county.  Several people are already figuring out that if you move just a little to the east, into Wagoner county, you still get all the benefits of BA schools, but you millage rate is 113.28.  Still high by Oklahoma standards, but cheaper to live.

Charge a city income tax and the people will slowly but surely mosey out to the other counties  and just drive to their work or completely relocate to another metropolitan area.

Over the last year Tulsa County's median income has dropped over $2000.  This is a result of many high paying jobs leaving the Tulsa area.  I argue that this is partly due to the fact that residents of Tulsa County are taxed too high to attract new jobs and has reached the point where a decline is happening.

Solution:  We start election officials who are fiscally responsible and look out after their constituents, not their own interests and friends.  They have to make hard decisions on priorities and start looking at the "not so sexy" projects that need to be done before we can become a growing economy again.

You're not paying attention. It doesn't matter where you live with a city income tax. If you are employed in the city, you would pay tax on that income. Live in Kansas if you want, the tax is due because you made the money in Oklahoma.

I don't know if it is the answer or if I support it but your "solution" is the same one that politicians have been using for decades to get elected. How's that working?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by chesty


Over the last year Tulsa County's median income has dropped over $2000.  This is a result of many high paying jobs leaving the Tulsa area.  

Prove this statement.

It is just plain false