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Tulsa Tough: Law Enforcement

Started by Ed W, May 25, 2008, 10:00:24 AM

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1099paralegal

#15
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982

wow aren't you quite the hypocrite.  First you say that bikes are traffic and must follow all the rules of the road.  Now once the police ENFORCE THESE RULES, which you state are IN FULL FORCE, you call the cops overzealous, over the top and are wasting tax payers money.  What about all these "stoopid" tickets that will go in front of a judge, would that not be wasting peoples tax dollars well?  Damn, and whose the village idiot??



Hello?  Are we NOT in UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?  Land of the FREE.  Home of the BRAVE.  And, DUE PROCESS, 14th AMENDMENT of the U.S. Constitution?

If due process is SUCH a waste of taxes, I know several places in the world where you should reside where they don't BOTHER with such a waste of taxes on DUE PROCESS.  Cops simply shoot you on the spot.  Problem SOLVED.

nathanm

quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982


Trials are never a waste of money? Are you serious?  There is quite a large difference between getting a traffic citation for which you pay a fine or go in front of a judge and being incarcerated.  My point being, there are plenty frivilous lawsuits and trials out there.  People have filed motions (which is a request for a court order) for the following:


Obviously I was speaking of situations where the state seeks to enforce some sort of penalty against a person.

BTW, the creamy/crunchy thing may well need a trial if the facts you posited are in fact true. If we don't want to give a prisoner the kind of peanut butter they buy, we shouldn't let them buy it in the first place. If they do buy something, they should get that product, not some random substitute of the guard's choosing.

The frivolous inmate lawsuits are merely a symptom of a bigger issue, anyway. Not that they should be filed, but again, that's not what I was talking about. Pretty obviously, if you ask me.
"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln

patric

quote:
Originally posted by nathanm

If we don't want to give a prisoner the kind of peanut butter they buy, we shouldn't let them buy it in the first place. If they do buy something, they should get that product, not some random substitute of the guard's choosing.


If the facts bear out crooked guards are routinely embezzling then it's not so frivolous.  Lets say the prisoner's have to document how they know substitutions are going on, and report that in one instance the crunchy peanut butter they bought was substituted for a cheap creamy brand.  The guard's union then distorts the report before the media to look like prisoners are complaining about creamy Vs. crunchy peanut butter, and the thefts by the guards are hidden by the smokescreen of semantics (while the prisoners are made to look like fools).  

It's all in the spin put on by a profession skilled at distorting the truth.
"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum

Wilbur

quote:

wow aren't you quite the hypocrite.  First you say that bikes are traffic and must follow all the rules of the road.  Now once the police ENFORCE THESE RULES, which you state are IN FULL FORCE, you call the cops overzealous, over the top and are wasting tax payers money.



AMEN!

patric

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:

wow aren't you quite the hypocrite.  First you say that bikes are traffic and must follow all the rules of the road.  Now once the police ENFORCE THESE RULES, which you state are IN FULL FORCE, you call the cops overzealous, over the top and are wasting tax payers money.


AMEN!


Isnt life wonderful when it can be reduced to an episode of "The Simpsons"?

Here, im thinking "Midnight Towboy"



It's the episode where Homer becomes a tow truck driver, and in time becomes over-zealous to the point where the citizens revolt, and when he's locked up the enforcement pendulum swings the other way and chaos ensues.  

The moral lesson (and every Simpsons eppisode's gotta have one) is moderation: The letter of the law should not enslave you, and that policing should involve some discretion beyond the letter of the law.
"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum

1099paralegal

#20
quote:
Originally posted by patric

The moral lesson (and every Simpsons eppisode's gotta have one) is moderation: The letter of the law should not enslave you, and that policing should involve some discretion beyond the letter of the law.



It also depends on who the alleged lawbreaker is.  If the alleged perp happens to be impersonating Santa, he's SOL.  All others, SKATE.

Moral of the story:  Impersonate the Easter Bunny.


1099paralegal

#22
quote:
Originally posted by mrhaskellok

Got some great footage today of the action!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XFoP2TxvbRw&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6TW-jDgUABs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C1lhGUXeJ-c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Jo0Ik7RUc

[:D][:D][:D]



Confusion: An Effective Traffic Control Device?

By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, December 24, 2007; Page A09

BOHMTE, Germany -- Like countless other communities, this west German town lived for years with a miserable traffic problem. Each day, thousands of cars and big trucks barreled along the two-lane main street, forcing pedestrians and cyclists to scamper for their lives.

The usual remedies -- from safety crossings to speed traps -- did no good. So the citizens of Bohmte decided to take a big risk. Since September, they've been tearing up the sidewalks, removing curbs and erasing street markers as part of a radical plan to abandon nearly all traffic regulations and force people to rely on common sense and courtesy instead.

This contrarian approach to traffic management, known as shared space, is gaining a foothold in Europe. Towns in the Netherlands, Denmark, Britain and Belgium have tossed out their traffic lights and stop signs in a bid to reclaim their streets for everyone.

The assumption is that drivers are accustomed to owning the road and rarely pay attention to speed limits or caution signs anyway. Removing traffic lights and erasing lane markers, the thinking goes, will cause drivers to get nervous and slow down.

"Generally speaking, what we want is for people to be confused," said Willi Ladner, a deputy mayor in Bohmte. "When they're confused, they'll be more alert and drive more carefully."

The European Union has subsidized shared space programs in seven cities in five countries. Interest is spreading worldwide, with cities in countries from Australia to Canada sending emissaries to Europe to see whether the experiment works.

In Bohmte, a town of 13,000 people in the state of Lower Saxony, residents were tired of all the trucks whizzing along Bremen Street, the main route through the city. Since the street is categorized as a state highway, German law prevented local officials from banning trucks. They considered building a bypass instead, but merchants worried it would suck too many vehicles out of the city center, hurting business.

In 2005, city leaders learned about shared space and decided to give it a try. One of the biggest obstacles was persuading regional traffic bureaucrats to approve the unorthodox approach. "They were grinding their teeth, but finally they agreed," Ladner said.

On Nov. 26, a small section of Bremen Street -- absent signs and curbs -- reopened to traffic. With no marked spaces, people can park their cars wherever they want, as long as they don't leave them in the middle of the road. The new pavement is a reddish-brick color, intended to send a subtle signal to drivers that they are entering a special zone.

Only two traffic rules remain. Drivers cannot go more than 30 mph, the German speed limit for city driving. And everyone has to yield to the right, regardless of whether it's a car, a bike or a baby carriage.

Peter Hilbricht, a Bohmte police officer in charge of traffic planning, said the main intersection in town generated about 50 accidents a year before the changes. He expects the number to plummet, citing the experience of other cities that have embraced the shared space approach.

In Haren, the Netherlands, for example, the number of accidents at one intersection dropped by 95 percent, from 200 a year to about 10, Hilbricht said. "You can't deny the numbers," he added. "Half the world is eager to see what's going to happen with this program."

Old habits, however, can be hard to break. Especially in Germany, a rules-obsessed nation where people who dare to jaywalk can expect a loud scolding from other pedestrians, even if no cars are in sight.

Asked to give a personal demonstration, Hilbricht put Bohmte's lack of rules to the test. Picking a random spot, he bravely stepped into oncoming traffic and across the road -- an act that could have earned him a fine pretty much anywhere else in Germany.

Cars immediately slowed down and gave Hilbricht a wide berth, although he admitted that his police uniform may have worked to his advantage.

When a reporter tried the same thing, two approaching drivers barely hit their brakes, including one guy in a van who babbled away on his cellphone as he sped past.

Ladner, the deputy mayor, acknowledged that it could take a year or two before residents get used to the changes. But city officials are confident. They are spending $3.3 million to overhaul parts of Bremen Street by next summer and hope to expand the special zone gradually over the next 10 to 20 years.

"We're very optimistic," Ladner said. "If others can do it, then why not us? It will be difficult for some people, yes, but it can be accomplished."

Although shared space is attracting lots of attention in Europe, no one expects Germany to shut down its famed autobahns anytime soon.

The program is designed only for public spaces where pedestrians and cyclists share routes with cars. Traffic engineers say it could lead to gridlock if introduced in high-traffic areas, such as large cities.

Practically speaking, the shared space concept works only at intersections that attract fewer than 15,000 vehicles a day, said Juergen Gerlach, a professor at the Center of Traffic and Transport at the University of Wuppertal. The approach can backfire if it covers more than a half-mile of road at a time, he said. Otherwise, drivers would get too frustrated with the slow pace and bypass the area.

Some residents in Bohmte said that although something needed to be done, they remain unconvinced that doing away with all the street signs and safety measures will do the job.

"It's how people are these days -- everyone is in a hurry, everyone just takes off," said Maria Stolte, who pulled her Mercedes in front of a bakery in the no-sign zone to buy some bread. "No one looks or pauses or is courteous. I hope it will slow people down."

At the same time, she doesn't plan on taking her bike for a spin anytime soon. "I don't know if I will feel comfortable riding down this street," she said.

The baker, Gisela Luebbert, is also skeptical.

"What they have done is pretty, no question about that," she said. "They've done a nice job with the design, but was it absolutely necessary? I don't know. We'll see if it's worth all the trouble."

Conan71

We saw Santa on his bike in Brookside this weekend.  He will sing naked for $1.

Scary, just plain scary.

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

1099paralegal

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

We saw Santa on his bike in Brookside this weekend.  He will sing naked for $1.

Scary, just plain scary.





Oh, fo' shure.  Since HB1804 cleared out the cheap kitchen help, Santa's tamale bill has probably TRIPLED.[:P]

mrhaskellok

quote:
Originally posted by 1099paralegal

quote:
Originally posted by mrhaskellok

Got some great footage today of the action!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XFoP2TxvbRw&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6TW-jDgUABs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C1lhGUXeJ-c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Jo0Ik7RUc

[:D][:D][:D]



Confusion: An Effective Traffic Control Device?

By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, December 24, 2007; Page A09

BOHMTE, Germany -- Like countless other communities, this west German town lived for years with a miserable traffic problem. Each day, thousands of cars and big trucks barreled along the two-lane main street, forcing pedestrians and cyclists to scamper for their lives.

The usual remedies -- from safety crossings to speed traps -- did no good. So the citizens of Bohmte decided to take a big risk. Since September, they've been tearing up the sidewalks, removing curbs and erasing street markers as part of a radical plan to abandon nearly all traffic regulations and force people to rely on common sense and courtesy instead.

This contrarian approach to traffic management, known as shared space, is gaining a foothold in Europe. Towns in the Netherlands, Denmark, Britain and Belgium have tossed out their traffic lights and stop signs in a bid to reclaim their streets for everyone.

The assumption is that drivers are accustomed to owning the road and rarely pay attention to speed limits or caution signs anyway. Removing traffic lights and erasing lane markers, the thinking goes, will cause drivers to get nervous and slow down.

"Generally speaking, what we want is for people to be confused," said Willi Ladner, a deputy mayor in Bohmte. "When they're confused, they'll be more alert and drive more carefully."

The European Union has subsidized shared space programs in seven cities in five countries. Interest is spreading worldwide, with cities in countries from Australia to Canada sending emissaries to Europe to see whether the experiment works.

In Bohmte, a town of 13,000 people in the state of Lower Saxony, residents were tired of all the trucks whizzing along Bremen Street, the main route through the city. Since the street is categorized as a state highway, German law prevented local officials from banning trucks. They considered building a bypass instead, but merchants worried it would suck too many vehicles out of the city center, hurting business.

In 2005, city leaders learned about shared space and decided to give it a try. One of the biggest obstacles was persuading regional traffic bureaucrats to approve the unorthodox approach. "They were grinding their teeth, but finally they agreed," Ladner said.

On Nov. 26, a small section of Bremen Street -- absent signs and curbs -- reopened to traffic. With no marked spaces, people can park their cars wherever they want, as long as they don't leave them in the middle of the road. The new pavement is a reddish-brick color, intended to send a subtle signal to drivers that they are entering a special zone.

Only two traffic rules remain. Drivers cannot go more than 30 mph, the German speed limit for city driving. And everyone has to yield to the right, regardless of whether it's a car, a bike or a baby carriage.

Peter Hilbricht, a Bohmte police officer in charge of traffic planning, said the main intersection in town generated about 50 accidents a year before the changes. He expects the number to plummet, citing the experience of other cities that have embraced the shared space approach.

In Haren, the Netherlands, for example, the number of accidents at one intersection dropped by 95 percent, from 200 a year to about 10, Hilbricht said. "You can't deny the numbers," he added. "Half the world is eager to see what's going to happen with this program."

Old habits, however, can be hard to break. Especially in Germany, a rules-obsessed nation where people who dare to jaywalk can expect a loud scolding from other pedestrians, even if no cars are in sight.

Asked to give a personal demonstration, Hilbricht put Bohmte's lack of rules to the test. Picking a random spot, he bravely stepped into oncoming traffic and across the road -- an act that could have earned him a fine pretty much anywhere else in Germany.

Cars immediately slowed down and gave Hilbricht a wide berth, although he admitted that his police uniform may have worked to his advantage.

When a reporter tried the same thing, two approaching drivers barely hit their brakes, including one guy in a van who babbled away on his cellphone as he sped past.

Ladner, the deputy mayor, acknowledged that it could take a year or two before residents get used to the changes. But city officials are confident. They are spending $3.3 million to overhaul parts of Bremen Street by next summer and hope to expand the special zone gradually over the next 10 to 20 years.

"We're very optimistic," Ladner said. "If others can do it, then why not us? It will be difficult for some people, yes, but it can be accomplished."

Although shared space is attracting lots of attention in Europe, no one expects Germany to shut down its famed autobahns anytime soon.

The program is designed only for public spaces where pedestrians and cyclists share routes with cars. Traffic engineers say it could lead to gridlock if introduced in high-traffic areas, such as large cities.

Practically speaking, the shared space concept works only at intersections that attract fewer than 15,000 vehicles a day, said Juergen Gerlach, a professor at the Center of Traffic and Transport at the University of Wuppertal. The approach can backfire if it covers more than a half-mile of road at a time, he said. Otherwise, drivers would get too frustrated with the slow pace and bypass the area.

Some residents in Bohmte said that although something needed to be done, they remain unconvinced that doing away with all the street signs and safety measures will do the job.

"It's how people are these days -- everyone is in a hurry, everyone just takes off," said Maria Stolte, who pulled her Mercedes in front of a bakery in the no-sign zone to buy some bread. "No one looks or pauses or is courteous. I hope it will slow people down."

At the same time, she doesn't plan on taking her bike for a spin anytime soon. "I don't know if I will feel comfortable riding down this street," she said.

The baker, Gisela Luebbert, is also skeptical.

"What they have done is pretty, no question about that," she said. "They've done a nice job with the design, but was it absolutely necessary? I don't know. We'll see if it's worth all the trouble."




I have read about this...makes perfect sense.

mrhaskellok

#26
If you want to learn more about this, there are several really good youtube videos...if there is any interest, we could make a thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLfasxqhBNU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuxMuMrXUJk&feature=related

1099paralegal

quote:
Originally posted by mrhaskellok

If you want to learn more about this, there are several really good youtube videos...if there is any interest, we could make a thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLfasxqhBNU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuxMuMrXUJk&feature=related



How to do Shared Space, Without Really Trying:  Build more QT's on EVERY intersection.

sauerkraut

Looks like Tulsa is a bit hard on crime these daze.[B)]
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