Kicking them while they are down-A Tulsa Sport

[KingMutt]

I read all this about SEM Group and it reminds me of CFS.

People seem to forget these businesses brought jobs and a lot of money into the local economy.

Business owners owe their employees a fair wage for a fair day's work. THAT IS IT!  Nothing more.

People around here have a sense of entitlement and resentment.  You are not owed squat, and if you don't like how your boss does something you don't like, then quit.  Get off your duff and create your own business where you will learn first hand what it is like to have a pathetic group of whining sod working for you.  Then we'll see how quick you'll be to judge.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

I read all this about SEM Group and it reminds me of CFS.

People seem to forget these businesses brought jobs and a lot of money into the local economy.

Business owners owe their employees a fair wage for a fair day's work. THAT IS IT!  Nothing more.

People around here have a sense of entitlement and resentment.  You are not owed squat, and if you don't like how your boss does something you don't like, then quit.  Get off your duff and create your own business where you will learn first hand what it is like to have a pathetic group of whining sod working for you.  Then we'll see how quick you'll be to judge.

From what I've seen, it was the top brass who ran SemGroup into the ground, just like CFS, not the rank and file workers. Why scapegoat them when it's clearly the grifters at the top who are to blame? These shysters deserve every bit of what they are getting.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

I read all this about SEM Group and it reminds me of CFS.

People seem to forget these businesses brought jobs and a lot of money into the local economy.

Business owners owe their employees a fair wage for a fair day's work. THAT IS IT!  Nothing more.

People around here have a sense of entitlement and resentment.  You are not owed squat, and if you don't like how your boss does something you don't like, then quit.  Get off your duff and create your own business where you will learn first hand what it is like to have a pathetic group of whining sod working for you.  Then we'll see how quick you'll be to judge.

you must be one of Kvisto's buddies.  Next time you see him tell him to invest in buttplugs because he will need one where he is going.

semgroup top "brass" were crooks who gambled a good company away.  the various impending lawsuits will uncover how slimy they were.

all of those skilled jobs are gone, and the people who were in them will probably leave the tulsa market altogether for some place like Dallas.

[waterboy]

King Mutt indeed. Honestly. You would have been quite comfortable in feudal England. Rule #1: The King Rules. Rule # 2: Refer to rule #1.

I have been on both sides mutt. It takes both labor and employers to make a business work. Take your post, replace the words "employer" or "business owners" with "labor" and you get the same one sided logic. Its simplistic and wrong. Capital without labor and markets might as well be stuffed into a mattress. And labor is part of the market.

These guys owe the community they live in the obligation to operate legally, morally and fairly. Families, governments, individuals all rely on them for good leadership and when they fail, it impacts everyone.

Without the cooperation of your whining local labor and the pathetic whining local government that make up the "local economy" these business gentry who carry a sense of entitlement and resentment...could not operate their precious businesses.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

I read all this about SEM Group and it reminds me of CFS.

People seem to forget these businesses brought jobs and a lot of money into the local economy.

Business owners owe their employees a fair wage for a fair day's work. THAT IS IT!  Nothing more.

People around here have a sense of entitlement and resentment.  You are not owed squat, and if you don't like how your boss does something you don't like, then quit.  Get off your duff and create your own business where you will learn first hand what it is like to have a pathetic group of whining sod working for you.  Then we'll see how quick you'll be to judge.

So wait, you're saying CFS was a good thing?

[KingMutt]

What I am saying is that too much is never enough for some employees.

I don't agree with criminal acts of management. No one is saying that is OK.  What I am saying is that often "labor" wants and wants and wants.  They are never satisfied.  The more you do for them, the more they feel entitled.

And no I don't think CFS was a good thing, but I think a lot of grunt level employees got an awful lot of goodies and benefits they would never have gotten any place else.  I remember some goofy chick on the news in the wake of the CFS scandal.  She was a whining miserable wretch and complained bitterly about Bartman.  Why the hell didn't she quit if he were truly that bad?

Bottom line, as an employer, it's my way or the highway, if you don't like how I do something get out.  Go some place else. Get another job.

It's my investment and my risk that provides the job in the first place. The labor is interchangeable.

[KingMutt]

And by the way "Inteller," in the off chance one of those guys goes to jail, it will be Club Fed. No need for butt plugs there.

Save your fantasies for you OZ dvd collection.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

What I am saying is that too much is never enough for some employees.

I don't agree with criminal acts of management. No one is saying that is OK.  What I am saying is that often "labor" wants and wants and wants.  They are never satisfied.  The more you do for them, the more they feel entitled.

And no I don't think CFS was a good thing, but I think a lot of grunt level employees got an awful lot of goodies and benefits they would never have gotten any place else.  I remember some goofy chick on the news in the wake of the CFS scandal.  She was a whining miserable wretch and complained bitterly about Bartman.  Why the hell didn't she quit if he were truly that bad?

Bottom line, as an employer, it's my way or the highway, if you don't like how I do something get out.  Go some place else. Get another job.

It's my investment and my risk that provides the job in the first place. The labor is interchangeable.

God, I hope you never run a company I work for.  I hope I never have to supervise you either.

I guess I won't have to worry, though, with the 'my way or the highway' comment, I've been pretty lucky picking those retards out and not ever working for them.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

What I am saying is that too much is never enough for some employees.

I don't agree with criminal acts of management. No one is saying that is OK.  What I am saying is that often "labor" wants and wants and wants.  They are never satisfied.  The more you do for them, the more they feel entitled.

And no I don't think CFS was a good thing, but I think a lot of grunt level employees got an awful lot of goodies and benefits they would never have gotten any place else.  I remember some goofy chick on the news in the wake of the CFS scandal.  She was a whining miserable wretch and complained bitterly about Bartman.  Why the hell didn't she quit if he were truly that bad?

Bottom line, as an employer, it's my way or the highway, if you don't like how I do something get out.  Go some place else. Get another job.

It's my investment and my risk that provides the job in the first place. The labor is interchangeable.

You must build Model-A's or similar. Jobs which you can define A-Z the process and prescribe the job top to bottom for an interchangeable employee. At the point all that gets set up, even your position becomes fairly meaningless.

OTOH, if your business requires people to think and be creative, they become invaluable assets to the operation, intergral with the success of same.

Still, even if you're building Model-A's, I wouldn't wish to work for you. People who do aren't really working 'for' you either, rather themselves. And, I suspect they act that way, too.

[KingMutt]

Geez, now I am Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Put yourself in the owner's shoes for a moment.  We take the risk and put up the capital.  If things fail, the worker simply finds another job, we end up in bankruptcy court.

All I am saying is that workers, no matter the industry..from waiters to mecahnics to nurses, often have a huge sense of entitlement that blinds them to the plight of owners.  These people seem to always want more and are quick to attack the boss when the chips are down.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but it is out there. Lots and lots of negativity.

Be nice to have a life where all I had to do was work 8-5 and no other worries. Where my retirement plan and insurance were taken care of by "the Man."

I envy you.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

Geez, now I am Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Put yourself in the owner's shoes for a moment.  We take the risk and put up the capital.  If things fail, the worker simply finds another job, we end up in bankruptcy court.

All I am saying is that workers, no matter the industry..from waiters to mecahnics to nurses, often have a huge sense of entitlement that blinds them to the plight of owners.  These people seem to always want more and are quick to attack the boss when the chips are down.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but it is out there. Lots and lots of negativity.

Be nice to have a life where all I had to do was work 8-5 and no other worries. Where my retirement plan and insurance were taken care of by "the Man."

I envy you.

Oh plzzzzz.... You'll still be able to pay your bills during your earned bankruptcy. Your employee's might find a job but at what pay and when? Oh and during this time they will not still have hidden resources to pay their bills and go on a cruise inbetween.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

Geez, now I am Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Put yourself in the owner's shoes for a moment.  We take the risk and put up the capital.  If things fail, the worker simply finds another job, we end up in bankruptcy court.

All I am saying is that workers, no matter the industry..from waiters to mecahnics to nurses, often have a huge sense of entitlement that blinds them to the plight of owners.  These people seem to always want more and are quick to attack the boss when the chips are down.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but it is out there. Lots and lots of negativity.

Be nice to have a life where all I had to do was work 8-5 and no other worries. Where my retirement plan and insurance were taken care of by "the Man."

I envy you.

I am assuming you own your own business? If so you had/have a choice to go work for someone and work 8-5 with no other worries.  BTW, if you do own a business, which one? I want to make sure never to do business with you.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

Geez, now I am Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Put yourself in the owner's shoes for a moment.  We take the risk and put up the capital.  If things fail, the worker simply finds another job, we end up in bankruptcy court.

All I am saying is that workers, no matter the industry..from waiters to mecahnics to nurses, often have a huge sense of entitlement that blinds them to the plight of owners.  These people seem to always want more and are quick to attack the boss when the chips are down.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but it is out there. Lots and lots of negativity.

Be nice to have a life where all I had to do was work 8-5 and no other worries. Where my retirement plan and insurance were taken care of by "the Man."

I envy you.

I am assuming you own your own business? If so you had/have a choice to go work for someone and work 8-5 with no other worries.  BTW, if you do own a business, which one? I want to make sure never to do business with you.

+100

[cannon_fodder]

1. Criminal charges have not even been filed, let alone proven.  It very well could be that SemGroup made a bad hedge and lost.  End of story.

Anytime a collapse of this magnitude transpires there will be, and should be, an investigation.  But to imply some sort of criminality is imprudent.  Unless you lost a lot of money and need to vent...

2. An employer only owes his worker a wage for a day.  This is true.  But that mentality generally only gets bottom rung workers.

Some workers are true wage slaves.  They put in their time for their money (wage or salary, doesn't really matter).  Paying them more gets marginal if any improvement.

But good companies manage to structure their workforce so that the employees are part of the company.  It is in the employers best interest to make the employees feel a personal connection the company, a desire to help BUILD the company, and assurance that they will be taken care of by the company.  It has been the common understanding and practice of most successful companies for about 20 years now.

Thus, when a company fails it is easy for employees to feel a personal connection.   And while nothing is owed to them, if a company is able to reward the hard work, loyalty, and faith of it's employees it helps compensate them for the work they put in to build it up.  Just like employees are expected to be loyal and care about the outcome, int he modern world the same is true of employers.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

Geez, now I am Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Put yourself in the owner's shoes for a moment.  We take the risk and put up the capital.  If things fail, the worker simply finds another job, we end up in bankruptcy court.

All I am saying is that workers, no matter the industry..from waiters to mecahnics to nurses, often have a huge sense of entitlement that blinds them to the plight of owners.  These people seem to always want more and are quick to attack the boss when the chips are down.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but it is out there. Lots and lots of negativity.

Be nice to have a life where all I had to do was work 8-5 and no other worries. Where my retirement plan and insurance were taken care of by "the Man."

I envy you.

Because you're talking like Ebeneezer Scrooge. Every worker, or owner/manager, has a job because someone else above them didn't want or couldn't do that job. Your job as an owner is to satisfy stockholders or your creditors. That is not something mechanics and nurses are saddled with. However, you aren't saddled with scraping your knuckles or finding the veins of old people.  

Your attitude is not one taught in business schools but picked up off the street from other tyrant bosses. If you can't handle the stress and responsibilities of your side of the equation there are plenty of 8-5 jobs you can relax in.