Can A city decide to be grocery tax free or is it

[buzz words]

Can A city decide to be grocery tax free or is it the state that decides?

[mrhaskellok]

A town may provide sales tax exemptions but only for taxes levied by the municipality.  State and county taxes will still apply.  

Does that help?

[sauerkraut]

Yeah food taxes are hard to get adjusted to. I live in Ohio where NO food is taxed not even carry out fast food, (they do tax eat-in restaurant food only)- Anyhoo, when I'm in Tulsa it's hard to get use to paying food taxes. I Buy something in Oklahoma for 99 cents (like a bag of chips) Automaticly hand the clerk a $1.00 bill and expect to get change back of 1 cent and the clerk says "That will be $1.08 please". Ah yes I'm not in Ohio anymore.[B)]

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Yeah food taxes are hard to get adjusted to. Anyhoo, when I'm in Tulsa it's hard to get use to paying food taxes. I Buy something in Oklahoma for 99 cents (like a bag of chips) Automaticly hand the clerk a $1.00 bill and expect to get change back of 1 cent and the clerk says "That will be $1.08 please". Ah yes I'm not in Ohio anymore.[B)]

Exactly.  And as a 50+ year Oklahoma resident and citizen, I will never vote "yes" for any sales tax increase or extension, as long as basic foodstuffs in Oklahoma are subject to sales tax.  Talk about regressive taxes...

[buzz words]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Yeah food taxes are hard to get adjusted to. Anyhoo, when I'm in Tulsa it's hard to get use to paying food taxes. I Buy something in Oklahoma for 99 cents (like a bag of chips) Automaticly hand the clerk a $1.00 bill and expect to get change back of 1 cent and the clerk says "That will be $1.08 please". Ah yes I'm not in Ohio anymore.[B)]

Exactly.  And as a 50+ year Oklahoma resident and citizen, I will never vote "yes" for any sales tax increase or extension, as long as basic foodstuffs in Oklahoma are subject to sales tax.  Talk about regressive taxes...

So this may happen?

[Conan71]

When you really get pissed off is when you finally consider all the incidental taxes which get thrown into everything you buy.  At some point one night when I've had a few, I'll do my spreadsheet on all the taxes which go into items you buy.  It's shocking.  You might think you are at a .33 rate, but take a look at all the other leach taxes and it's nowhere close- more like 50%.

The way our state has always consistently worked is that, if you give a concession on taxes on food or groceries, then you have to pick it up somewhere else instead of cutting back gov't expenditures.

Honestly, the tax system in Texas has always seemed to work, perhaps we should look a little closer at it.

[mrhaskellok]

Can you explain some of the differences between the two tax codes?  I am very interested.

[cannon_fodder]

In a typical product taxes that are figured in off the top of my head:

FICA (~7.5% of wages)
Workers Comp.  (up to 15%+ in Oklahoma)
Unemployment (up to 5.5%)
Fuel Taxes (~30%)
Road Use/Weight Taxes
Vehicle Tags/Permits
Tolls
Property Rendition Taxes
Real Property Taxes
Insurance Tax
Communications Taxes (phone, internet, cell, fax)
Royalty Taxes
Disposal Taxes
Income Taxes (~33%)
Sales Taxes (~9%)

Do some math.  Figure that most of those taxes are included in every product and/or service that you buy, and most of it a "hidden cost" of your purchase.  It would take hours to figure out exactly how much tax you actually pay a day.

Seeing how no one really knows how much they pay for taxes, the system works great to siphon MOST of your income to some government.  At the end of the day, consumers pay all these taxes.  It hurts my head trying to think of how much total tax is included in the average transaction.

[mrhaskellok]

I in an article someone that Tulsa at one time (up till 1967 I think) had no sales tax.

I wonder if anyone has done an analysis to see where expenditures has risen in the last 30 years to require the additional funding.

Personal Services?
Materials and Supplies?
Other Services & Charges?
Capital Outlay?

The basic categories of a municipal budget...wonder which one has grown by percent the most.  I have a suspicion.  Capital Outlay projects are expensive by nature so that category may be higher significantly, especially if you figure in projects like the Arena.   CIP aside, my guess is Personal Services has risen by % more than any other category.  I have looked at other municipal budgets from the past and that seems to be consistent throughout Oklahoma.

IF I am right I believe it is merely because we have become an "I" society.  Fewer and fewer people truly have the heart for Public Service.  It used to be that Public Service jobs were reserved for those who had a heart for their fellow neighbor.  That is why councilman make $50(and in many cases much less) a month in so many towns.  We need to get back to that.  If you want to work in PS thats great, but we need to put the SERVICE back in public.  Sure it is a job, but due to the fact that it is other people's money, those working should understand that in order for THEIR community to work, as a whole the government needs to NOT tax it citizens to death.  

The problem is simple, it is always easier to give someone else's money, ESPECIALLY for salaries.  We all want to be nice and we prefer to be nicer to humans (i.e. people who can say thank you and praise our name) rather than say streets or equipment.

[shadows]

As one may have noted the public employees has asked for an increase in their $15,000 yearly salary and if they do not receive the increase to the $9 dollars per hour they will have to apply for food stamps.

Does any one remember when the minimum wage  was 25 cents an hour and the now flint steel and construction co fabricated the bomber plant with welders at 45 cents per hour?

Then the bureaucracies discovered that "its only a penny tax increase and what in the hell can people buy for a penny"?   So it began with a penny tax here and a penny tax there to where you do not accumulate enough pennies to buy things necessary to pursue the lowest of live styles reserved only for government employees, paid from "that's only a penny tax"

The tax on food is a compulsory tax paid on the necessary items require for survival where the burden is placed  on the poor but it generates a major part of the taxes that is enjoyed by the rich.  Take the tax off food ya ya ya ya

Yes we can get a second job to make ends meet but has it ever been suggested to the government workers, that are unable to live on their incomes, also can take another part time job?

[mrhaskellok]

Yeah, I waited tables for some time to help make ends meet and my wife still does to help us out.  

I know many government employees who make much more than both of our salaries combined but still think they don't make "enough".  

me know if I am missing something...

1) Many, many of us incorrectly believe that we "need" more money to be happy, eat, live the American dream, whatever.  We could learn valuable lessons from those who have learned to live on less.  I believe that money does not equal happiness, just the desire for more money.
2) We pay our elected officials (state legislators) way more than the state average in wages.  Of course we say they have a harder job and ya ya ya.  Ok, but then they look at/work with all of the other government employees who, like them would like to make more money.  
3) They find it LOGICAL ( stretch I know []) to believe that government employees current salaries are not enough.  Why?  Because they don't think theirs' are either.  It is then way to easy to say that if they paid better we would attract better people and have more productivity.  
I think some of that is true, but it way to general of a statement to base a system wide pay raise.  The facts are in on this one, there are a  TON of highly paid morons in every sector.

For example, I make $200 a month as a city councilman. NO benefits, no perks, not even a phone.   I don't put in 40 hours a week on city related activities, but with the time I do invest, my hourly is about $3.  
First, I do believe we should pay our employees.   But, it is a lot easier for me to say no against a large increase if I am NOT making 50k.   Either out of guilt or charity, if I was making 50k, I would be far more inclined to offer our employees more.  Just a fact of life I think.

One other note that may be of interest.  Coburn was here not long ago and he talked about the need for more new faces on the capitol.  He said more good people needed to run.  I suggested that more bad people need to not WANT to run.  In other words, don't create so many incentives for the position.  His response was that only the rich would run for office.

Perhaps we should only pay, say $30,000.  I believe (but I may be wrong) that a lot of our elected officials would just walk out when times got ruff if they didn't have their 250k salary, pension plan, and health insurance.  Then more people who actually CARE about this Nation, State, or City, would stick it out through the hard times.  They have passion and patience to see things improve.  

Thoughts?