East End

[USRufnex]

I just don't see the demand for it..... I'd like to see some "regional attractions" make that area a "destination".... for that "superblock" that has really good access from the highway, I'd propose...

1.  Tulsa Children's Museum -- could be reasonably easy to do, maybe this could be part of the next third-penny...

2.  Oklahoma Oil and Aerospace Museum -- after KT's support for state money for OKC's NBA team, maybe some state money can come to the other side of the turnpike for this... a museum that's alot like Chicago's "Museum of Science & Industry" with lots of hands-on stuff would work really well... would compliment the Children's Museum...

3.  A Tulsa Central Library that has more computers and internet access than books; a library that would be a community center... the basement of Chicago's downtown library has a 2,000 seat auditorium... for Tulsa, how 'bout a large room that could host traveling art exhibitions and recitals and theater groups etc... something multipurpose that would be different from other venues in town....

3 projects with 3 potentially different funding sources... something that could connect the east village area to the Virginia Lofts on one end and the Blue Dome on the other...

***you notice I said nothing about a soccer stadium.... problem is, due to increases in construction costs for a stadium and all the mixed-use commercial/residential that would pay for it through use of TIF, that financial model just doesn't hold up the way it did even a few months ago... KC bumped their request from $10mil in state money to $30mil in state money after already securing a local TIF and a pivital decision for state funding is coming up in the next week... make fun of Jenks' TIF all you want, but that $1bil plan is looking more stable than the plan in Collinsville, IL for  investors to fund a $573 million mixed-use retail/residential that includes the cost of a  soccer stadium complex for a St Louis MLS team...

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

1.  I wish the new arena had been built there.
2.  I wish the soccer stadium and 40 acres of mixed-use had been built there.
3.  I wish the ballpark and 20 acres of mixed-use had been built there.
4.  I wish a super WalMart had been built on the "superblock" as part of a TIF district that included acres and acres of mixed-use development.
5.  I wish the DESCO project woulda gone through.
6.  You know, even a movie studio and set woulda been nice...... [B)]

I just don't think anything's gonna happen without some major league heavy lifting by developers and the city.... so much of that area is NOT something that can simply be rehabbed.

Wow, I for one am really glad your wishes dont come true lol.

You do realize, Artist, that ANY of those wishes would be a huge improvement over what's there right now... that area has been the same for decades.  Sorry to interrupt everybody's pipedreams for that area.... but any buildings resembling Persi's pics on pg 1 would have to be replicas built from scratch...

Most of the East End/East Village is and has been a wasteland of ugliness with a handful of decent buildings on its outskirts that may or may not be rehab-ready....

IMHO, even the older buildings that could be rehabbed in that area are unremarkable.

It's a shame that the area has sat there mostly dormant for such a long time... most of my trips downtown involve taking the exit off the BA that loops off 7th? and Frankfort westbound...

I liked the idea pursued for years by one who used to post here (remember JDB?) about making a "micro-hood".... but sustaining some little microhood in such an isolated area in the IDL would be next to impossible if there's not something credible and tangeable to walk to other than those old decrepit Nordam warehouses...

Makes me wonder if LaFortune was re-elected if there'd be something there right now, instead of the laissez-faire approach by Mayor Taylor that enabled the WalMart versus Global Development property wars...

I remember when we talked of things that were going to be exciting for that area; with an out-of-state developer who had experience and expertise... and had moved money from other projects to dedicate to pursuing mixed-use including the ballpark....

I remember all the talk of LaFortune and all the cries of cronyism... now, let's compare those people and that approach to those from Mayor Taylor and her puppetmasters... rinse, repeat...  [B)]

Its not that some of those things may have been an improvement to what is there now... its that many of those things would be better placed in other areas.

I would rather have the non-pedestrian friendly arena for instance placed in a non-pedestrian friendly area. The East End has more potential to become a pedestrian friendly area than the location where the arena was placed. Plus it can work in concert with the Convention Center for larger events, and the large parking garages that are also right by it.

I would rather have the ballpark go where it may end up going in the Greenwood district. Development around it at this time will help solidify and connect the developments going on in the Brady Arts and Blue Dome districts. I think this is the better outcome than having yet another development isolated in yet another area of downtown. We need at least one area of downtown to get that "critical mass" and show some real, positive, results, and soon. The baseball stadium in the Greenwood district will do just that.

I dont know what the DESCO project is or was. Must have been before my time lol.

A movie studio?... bout as likely as the Disney Theme park going in somewhere around Tulsa or BA that is rumored to happen every decade or so.

The most likely scenario is to have the ballpark go in Greenwood. Once that happens you will definitely see development happen around that. Once people see results in  that area and the Brady, Greenwood, Blue Dome areas knitting together and filling in.... development will begin to spill over into the East End. Seeing positive results will also allow the city to begin talking about something like a Childrens Museum, Modern Art Museum or some other public or partially publicly funded project for downtown, possibly for the East End. But at the moment I think people are not going to be willing to sink another dime into downtown without seeing some real life and results happening down there. The ballpark, boulder bridge... thats enough, thats all ya getting for a while. Plain and simple. Once the other areas begin taking off and fill in, the East End should grow organically all on its own. No "fertilizer" needed. We can then begin turning more of our attention to other parts of the city, like development along the river on the west side. If the ballpark goes in, downtown should be able to take care of itself from now on. IF we are going to spend any more money downtown at all, I would say it should go for the Starter Line. The main reason for that is so that we can begin spreading out to other areas of the city and get renewed growth and opportunity in those areas.

The core, midtown and downtown will be rocking along, South Tulsa is doing fine and can take care of itself, we can then begin focusing on spurring growth and redevelopment in North, West, and East Tulsa. It may just be that a "starter line" downtown sending out tendrils to those areas would be an interesting thing to consider. TOD growth and "town square" type nodes around the stations in N, E and W, Tulsa could be a great way to go. Giving people in those areas access to mass transit, job access and development, renewed sense of optimism from the growth in those areas, and another sense of pride/identity from the "places" that can grow up around these town square, station nodes. But you have to have that main station downtown, a thriving and growing downtown, in order to have something positive for those nodes to "connect" to.  

[USRufnex]

How soon they forget......

Friday, May 31, 2002
DESCO, MLP to develop urban village in Tulsa
St. Louis Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2002/05/27/daily72.html

The DESCO Group will team with the Tulsa (Okla.) Development Authority and MLP Investments to create a mixed-use development in downtown Tulsa.

Financial terms were not disclosed.

The companies will create East Village, a pedestrian-oriented retail, residential, cultural and entertainment district, aiming to revitalize an old downtown site. DESCO will handle the commercial aspect of the development, while St. Louis-based MLP Investments will handle the residential aspect, the companies said.

The East Village, on a 115-acre site, will be designed by St. Louis-based Suttle-Mindlin architects, and will include 760,000 square feet of retail space; 50,000 square feet for entertainment venues; 100,000 square feet for offices; a 12-story hotel and multi-family and single-family residences.

St. Louis-based DESCO Group is a commercial real estate, development and management firm.

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http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2007

"$500 million facility for Tulsa

Other incentives enacted last week will award state income tax credits of up to 25 percent to companies that build production facilities in Oklahoma and give state taxpayers who invest in projects produced in Oklahoma a 25 percent income tax credit on profits made, if they reinvest their profits in another Oklahoma project.

The former comes just in time for an investor group called East Village Studio Project, which is planning a $500 million production facility and hotel on 115 acres in downtown Tulsa, with retail shops and different architectural developments on different streets.

"We've been negotiating with the city for the past 15 months," said Pete Rommel, owner of Hotel Savoy and a partner in the project.

Construction is expected to begin by the fourth quarter, Rommel said.

The reinvestment incentive was the brainchild of his partner and certified public accountant Fred Imel, said Paul Tompkins, president of Crazy Fish Films and Vision Pix.

"It's a no-lose proposition for the state," he said. "It encourages local and studio companies to come here and reinvest. And if they don't have any income to offset, it doesn't matter anyway."

Tompkins, an Oklahoma City native who spent 20 years behind the camera in LA working on "Dallas," "LA Law," and "Matlock," is trying to raise $12 million to shoot three films and a TV series in Oklahoma, including a comedy titled "There Goes the Groom" about a man turned on his head two days before his wedding to a Nichols Hills' heiress. "

[TheArtist]

May 2002?.... good gawd, its not a matter of forgetting. It WAS before my time on here lol. I dont even think I had a computer back then. As for the studio project, it was a crock of bull and I heard that from several people. Bout as real and probable as the Heavenly Hospitality people and proposals. Just some yahoos making a lot of noise, and not any ability to make it happen other than a song and a prayer. Surely you can tell the difference between something thats real and smoke being blown up your @rse lol. If not,,,, I got some property in Florida you might be interested in. [8D]