Is TulsaNow.org a Political Surrogate for Obama?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Crash Daily

Oh no, he called me a ditto head! Better than a d!ldo head, like most Dims. [8D] See FB, I told you that facts really get them riled up. Watch this one. [] Oh, by the way, if Dims weren't so far left, you'd see that current Conservatism is very close to the center, but you wacky Libs, you're so far gone, you think Moderate Liberalism is slightly Conservative. Go figure. We've been pulled so far to the looney left, you can't even recognize balance any more. That means..., you're UNBALANCED.

http://thewwp.blogspot.com/2006/07/10-reasons-nazis-were-left-wing.html

10 Reasons the Nazis were left wing

"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism that separates us from it...I have given orders that...Communists are to be recruited into the party at once. The petite bourgeois Social Democrat and the trade union boss will never make a Nazi, but the communist always will" - Adolf Hitler

Every conservative and patriot has at some point been accused by a leftist of being a "Nazi". In fact it seems to be the favourite epithet of leftists, who toss it around in the direction of anyone who opposes them. I recently read that if you Google "Bush+Hitler", you get over 1 million results, such is the frequency with which leftists accuse conservatives of being "Nazis". The leftist typically casts the Nazis as extreme right wingers, and thus anyone who is a right winger is on the verge of Nazism in the fantasy world leftists live in, hence why they feel so inclined to accuse us of it. The insult is cheap and tasteless. It cheapens the lives of those killed by genuine Nazis, and betrays the lack of intellectual ammunition the left has in debates with conservatives, showing that leftists must resort to tasteless insults to get their point across and smear anyone who opposes them.

Ironically as it happens, Nazism is actually much more accurately described as a far LEFT movement than a far right movement, as it is more commonly (and it must be said falsely) described as being. In this report we shall examine the way the Nazis worked, and see that they were in fact better described as far leftists, like the Communists they were allegedly so diametrically opposed to, and thus leftists should be the last people to toss the "Nazi" epithet around. Lets look at the startling common ground Communism and Nazism have, which is un surprising given they are in actual fact both far left movements.

1) Cynical use of nationalism, frequently run in parallel to socialism

Whenever one suggests the Nazis were far left, the response of the leftist is to say they couldn't be, as the Nazis were nationalists both in a national and racial sense, and nationalism is more associated with the right than the "one world, no borders" view of the leftists. However, one should always be aware that leftists often like to appeal to sentiments of patriotism in order to better conceal their leftist agenda. The Nazis were no different. The party name the National Socialists directly shows this interweaving of nationalism and socialism, but it was not a mix, rather it was socialism/communism using a veneer of nationalism and patriotism to disguise itself, and to appeal to patriotic voters.

The Russian Communists also used nationalism when it suited them. For example, during the opening stages of Operation Barbarossa, the Communists urged the Russian people to "Defend the International Working Class" and other hollow Marxist cliches. The Red Army performed disastrously, and its morale was rock bottom. But then something changed; the Red Army suddenly got tougher, began fighting to the end, exhausting the Germans and finally defeating them. The reason was simple; the army were now no longer fighting to protect the "International working class"; the Soviets had changed their message, so now the men were fighting to protect Rodina Mat-Mother Russia. The war was dubbed "The Great Patriotic War", and the old Russian nationalist heroes of the past were evoked in film and radio to instill a sense of nationalism and patriotism, which the Communists had to permit in order to instill fighting will in their men. Men do not fight for abstract cliches. They fight for family and country.

This tactic has been copied by other far left regimes; in North Korea, Kim Sung Il has a number of honorific titles, some of which include "Matchless Patriot" and "Eternal Partisan", both of which are more nationalistic than socialist, and at North Korean military parades, nationalist emblems are more common than socialist ones. The North Korean army also sing a marching song called "No Motherland without You", which again appeals to right wing sentiments of patriotism. Even today leftists like to parrot patriotic slogans or make hollow statements about "Loving my country" when in fact they hate it, but they have to make these noises to take the wind out of the sails of genuine patriotic opponents.

2) Racism

At this point we shall look at the racial nationalism angle. Granted, we have established that far left regimes can and do interweaving nationalism and patriotism into their political expression (even if only for cynical reasons). However, the Nazis were also racial nationalists. The leftist argues that this means the Nazis were not leftist, as left wingers cannot possibly be racist or anti-Semitic now, can they? Yeah right....

There are countless examples of leftist racism. In the USSR, whole ethnic groups could be up-rooted from their homelands and forcefully deported, be it to create the fabled "New Soviet Man" or as collective punishment such as when North Caucasian ethnic groups were deported for perceived disloyalty. Whole ethnic groups could be the subject of collective punishment for perceived crimes against Communism, such as when the Communists starved over 1 million Ukrainians to death. In Communist Vietnam, hill tribes people such as the Montagnards and Hmong are routinely persecuted by the Communist regime in Hanoi on the grounds their ethnicity makes them naturally more deserving of punishment. The black Marxists of Zimbabwe are also known for their undisguised anti-white racism, and have gleefully orchestrated a campaign of ethnic cleansing, property seizure and vilification against the whites.

3) Similar demographic target voter

The Nazi party appealed to the exact same constituency as the DKP (Communists). Both appealed to the lower middle and upper working class Germans who had been worst hit by the Wall Street Crash and its resultant global depression. If the Communists are far left and the Nazis are far right, then one assumes they would attract different voter groups. But they didn't, as they were in actual fact both simply sub-variants of the same far-left ideology.

4) Similar power seizure tactics

Both Nazism and Communism, have little that appeals to most voters, and thus their chances of electoral success are slim. The Communists realised early on that the masses would never accept Communism, and the Nazis also realised this. Both Communism and Nazism believed that their best tactic for winning power would be to seize power by force during a period of societal chaos and anarchy. For the Communists, this was called "revolutionary defeatism", which is outlined in more detail at this link. Essentially, it was to encourage proxy groups to stir up chaos and violence, until the current society collapsed, and in this window of opportunity, armed Bolsheviks could seize the organs of power.

Nazis also believed this; again, a period of chaos and societal breakdown was needed to create a window of opportunity which their activists could take advantage of. The only difference was that the Communists wanted to have a hand in starting the chaos, whilst the Nazis did not, believing it was best to simply prepare for the chaos eventually happening so they would be placed best to take advantage of it when it finally came. In some ultra-nationalist circles this is called a "Redeeming crisis", though it is by no means limited to these circles.

5) Contempt for innocent life

"One death is a tragedy, a million is statistic" - Stalin
" If the war is lost then it is of no concern to me if the people perish in it" - Hitler

Both of these far left leaders quotes epitomise the contempt for innocent life the far left has. The Nazis and Communists also racked up a fair body count in the C20th, with at least 100 million people killed by both. They did so because they did not care about innocent people, and this led them to either kill them themselves in massacres, or as a result of their bizarre social experiments, such as Stalins attempts to collectivise farming or similar one by Mao which was so bad, that Chinese peasants resorted to eating soil to try and remain alive, only to die of intestinal disease; Mao is said to have remarked that he was more than happy to have half of China's (then) 500 million die if thats what it took for his utopia to come about.

Both Communists and Nazis glorified violence. Official Nazi propaganda taught that war was the noblest human calling of all, and the Nazis believed that there vision of a utopia would only be complete once they had Lebensraum in which to build it, hence the launch of World War II. Communism also relished/relishes violence, aggression and confrontation, and even today, far left publications are filled with urges to "resist", "struggle", "fight on" etc. And the black Marxist BPP adopted the slogan "By any means necessary".

6) Re-invention of morality and human nature

Both Nazism and Communism re-invented morality; both believed there was no God as it was "the ultimate Jewish consequence" or "opiate of the masses", depending on whether you were Nazi or Communist. There was also a denial of the traditional Western moral view of the dignity of the individual, which was cast aside in favour of collectivism and deindividuation. Both Nazis and Communists expected their citizens to submerge their individuality into the sea of the collective masses, and to sacrifice themselves for this goal, until we had a "New Soviet Man" or "Ubermensch", again a different label for the same concept. Both of these mythological utopianites were men who had no traits to distinguish them from any other, and whose whole psychology revolved around serving the hive-like structure of the collectivist utopian society.

7) Belief in creating a utopia via the guidance of an all powerful ruling party

When the Nazis came to power, one of their first goals was to create a Volksgemeinschaft ("Peoples Community"), where all divisions based on class would be swept away, and all people would live together in a healthy state. One can already see the parallels between this "classless utopian" vision of the Nazis and the similar classless heaven on earth envisaged by Marxists.

The Nazis also believed that a temporary period would be needed to realign and re educate their population before this leap to a classless Volksgemeinschaft paradise could come about. This meant an all powerful inner party taking control of all organs of public culture, from theatre and music to the education system and print media. This was exactly what the Bolsheviks in Russia did when they came to power, as they too believed that there needed to be a temporary "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" when an all powerful inner party would lead the re-education and societal re-alignment of the masses to prepare them for the leap to the classless utopia. Again, no difference between the Communists and the Nazis.

Use of monitoring, gulags and slave labour

Both the Nazis and Communists also employed secret police forces to crush internal opposition, thus eliminating competing views of the future from interrupting their social engineering. In both cases, the police forces of Nazi Germany (Gestapo) and the USSR (NKVD, later KGB) operated with almost total power and employed an extensive number of informants who were encouraged to "denounce" their neighbours. Yet again, absolutely no difference between the Nazis and the Communists, as they were both far left movements.

Both the Nazis and Communists constructed elaborate camps where political opponents, real or imagined could be sent. These camps were characterised by forced labour, sexual abuse, forced participation in medical and military experiments and brutal working conditions. I would recommend Solzhenitsyn's book "Gulag" for anyone interested further in the conditions inside these camps. Political opponents were also used as forced labour; indeed, in Nazi Germany there were almost 5-10 million people working as slaves when the surrender came, and at any one time during the Cold War at least 250,000 people were detained in Gulags in the Soviet Union. Many of the civil engineering projects of the Stalin years were built using slave labourers.

9) Political narrative casting one group as the source of all evil

Both the Nazis and the Communists had political narratives in which one all powerful opponent stood between them and their heaven on earth. The only difference was what they called this group; for the Nazis it was "International Jewry" whilst for Communists it was the "bourgeoisie". In these narratives, the group in question were never capable of being part of the new utopia, were trying to use their control of banking and finance to prevent utopia from coming around, and the only option left therefore was to eliminate them altogether. For Nazis, this was "the Jews", whilst for the Communists, this was the bourgeoisie; as Pipes remarks, "Lenin hated what he perceived to be 'the bourgeoisie' with a destructive pattern that fully equaled Hitler's hatred of the Jews". This destructive pattern followed an ever escalating campaign of vilification towards the target group; property confiscation, legal bars, violence towards this group encouraged and un-punished by the authorities, and eventually starvation, deportation and killing.

For Communists, several famines were deliberately engineered so as to kill off "bourgeoisie" and the ones who miraculously survived were often put against a wall and shot by Red Army units. Many were also loaded onto cattle trucks and transported to gulags in Siberia. Lenin often urged his Red Guards to be "pitiless" with the people, and they did just that. The Nazis also used starvation, such as in the Warsaw ghetto where Jews were allowed to starve to death, before they were loaded onto cattle trucks and taken for "re-settlement"; and we all know what that was a euphemism for...

10) Desire to disarm and dominate the people

"...ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state" - Heinrich Himmler

In a truly free nation, the people rule the leaders, not the other way round. However, in tyranny, the reverse is true, with a small cabal dictating terms to the masses, and viewing them all as nothing more than cogs in the state machinery to serve the needs of "The People" or "The State". In such a state, a few heroic people will always resist, some forcefully. In the extreme states of the far left, citizenry are disarmed almost immediately, leaving them to the fate of the "party", and also leaving the people they choose to massacre and transport to gulags defenseless.

Conclusion

As we have seen, Nazism and Communism are/were indistinguishable. This similarity is not because, as leftists claim, because both Communist and Nazi states used similar tactics. The tactics were not the result as a coincidence; it was because the two systems were ideological twins, even if at least outwardly they were non-identical ones. Nazism and Communism are both far left ideologically; the brutal tactics they each employed were the natural outgrowth of ideologies that exalted collectivism, deindividuation and violence.

It is ironic that leftists, who are most prone to toss the epithet "Nazi" around, are actually closer to being Nazis than any Conservative will ever be...

Now who's sh*tting themselves?

[:O]

You guys are really reaching now.

How's that economy doing?

[Chicken Little]

Geezus CD, you are one thick brick.  These ten items are common to totalitarian regimes.  It's worth noting that they can emerge from both the right and left, but irrelevant once their grip has been established.

In point of fact, Nazism emerged from the right.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Crash Daily

USRufnex,

Just an FYI. Both Marxism and Nazism are left leaning ideologies. Skin heads in America only relate to the Republican Party because the majority of blacks went to the left. It's been a misnomer since that time, successfully disguised by the left to make the right out to be the extremists.

Nazi's are big government Socialists that do not value innocent human life. That's Dems, not Republicans. The left sprouts Communism, Totalitarianism and dictatorships. Ask China, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela or any other extremist state, which party or candidate they support. Birds of a feather my friend.

When I see that big poster that FB is putting up, calling Obama a Marxist and I look at the fact that Obama has the most extreme, left leaning voting record in the Senate, I don't see it as a cut down, but a stated fact.

Extreme left wing Democrats are Marxists. If they continually argue for all of the primary ideals of Marxism, why not wear the moniker with pride? Oh that's right..., because it means they eventually intend to successfully destroy the U.S. constitution and turn this nation Communist. I forgot there for a Second. Wouldn't want the sheeple to know the truth before it's to late now would we?

Lay off the racism FB.

I bet you are plenty able to express your point without dipping in to the gutter. Concentrate on what's under the skin. As with all Dems, beauty is only skin deep, (Or lack thereof) but ugly goes clean to the bone. Just point out the underlying facts. Democrats hate facts. They are inconvenient and really p*ss them off. [8D]

Why is any one responding to this uninformed, poorly educated, hatred filled, fountain of ignorance trying to educate all us slow wits?
Even you Libertarians, conservatives and Republioans must be embarrassed.

Must we be constantly be assaulted with this crap?

[Crash Daily]

Blah, blah, blah.

I think Water is coming to a boil. [}:)]

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Also, Chicken Little, about the comment above, regarding totalitarianism being able to come out of the left or right..., BINGO, you win a prize!

I just wanted to rub some Dim noses in it, that think the right is where it all comes from. It's called illustrating absurdity, with the absurd.

There are easily elements that can be argued from both sides. I still honestly think that there's more in the left, at least at this point in history, that points to the potential for totalitarianism, but I'm sure the OTHER side thinks the same about Conservatives. Well, I know they do.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Crash Daily

Oh no, he called me a ditto head! Better than a d!ldo head, like most Dims. [8D] See FB, I told you that facts really get them riled up. Watch this one. [] Oh, by the way, if Dims weren't so far left, you'd see that current Conservatism is very close to the center, but you wacky Libs, you're so far gone, you think Moderate Liberalism is slightly Conservative. Go figure. We've been pulled so far to the looney left, you can't even recognize balance any more. That means..., you're UNBALANCED.

http://thewwp.blogspot.com/2006/07/10-reasons-nazis-were-left-wing.html

10 Reasons the Nazis were left wing

"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism that separates us from it...I have given orders that...Communists are to be recruited into the party at once. The petite bourgeois Social Democrat and the trade union boss will never make a Nazi, but the communist always will" - Adolf Hitler

Every conservative and patriot has at some point been accused by a leftist of being a "Nazi". In fact it seems to be the favourite epithet of leftists, who toss it around in the direction of anyone who opposes them. I recently read that if you Google "Bush+Hitler", you get over 1 million results, such is the frequency with which leftists accuse conservatives of being "Nazis". The leftist typically casts the Nazis as extreme right wingers, and thus anyone who is a right winger is on the verge of Nazism in the fantasy world leftists live in, hence why they feel so inclined to accuse us of it. The insult is cheap and tasteless. It cheapens the lives of those killed by genuine Nazis, and betrays the lack of intellectual ammunition the left has in debates with conservatives, showing that leftists must resort to tasteless insults to get their point across and smear anyone who opposes them.

Ironically as it happens, Nazism is actually much more accurately described as a far LEFT movement than a far right movement, as it is more commonly (and it must be said falsely) described as being. In this report we shall examine the way the Nazis worked, and see that they were in fact better described as far leftists, like the Communists they were allegedly so diametrically opposed to, and thus leftists should be the last people to toss the "Nazi" epithet around. Lets look at the startling common ground Communism and Nazism have, which is un surprising given they are in actual fact both far left movements.

1) Cynical use of nationalism, frequently run in parallel to socialism

Whenever one suggests the Nazis were far left, the response of the leftist is to say they couldn't be, as the Nazis were nationalists both in a national and racial sense, and nationalism is more associated with the right than the "one world, no borders" view of the leftists. However, one should always be aware that leftists often like to appeal to sentiments of patriotism in order to better conceal their leftist agenda. The Nazis were no different. The party name the National Socialists directly shows this interweaving of nationalism and socialism, but it was not a mix, rather it was socialism/communism using a veneer of nationalism and patriotism to disguise itself, and to appeal to patriotic voters.

The Russian Communists also used nationalism when it suited them. For example, during the opening stages of Operation Barbarossa, the Communists urged the Russian people to "Defend the International Working Class" and other hollow Marxist cliches. The Red Army performed disastrously, and its morale was rock bottom. But then something changed; the Red Army suddenly got tougher, began fighting to the end, exhausting the Germans and finally defeating them. The reason was simple; the army were now no longer fighting to protect the "International working class"; the Soviets had changed their message, so now the men were fighting to protect Rodina Mat-Mother Russia. The war was dubbed "The Great Patriotic War", and the old Russian nationalist heroes of the past were evoked in film and radio to instill a sense of nationalism and patriotism, which the Communists had to permit in order to instill fighting will in their men. Men do not fight for abstract cliches. They fight for family and country.

This tactic has been copied by other far left regimes; in North Korea, Kim Sung Il has a number of honorific titles, some of which include "Matchless Patriot" and "Eternal Partisan", both of which are more nationalistic than socialist, and at North Korean military parades, nationalist emblems are more common than socialist ones. The North Korean army also sing a marching song called "No Motherland without You", which again appeals to right wing sentiments of patriotism. Even today leftists like to parrot patriotic slogans or make hollow statements about "Loving my country" when in fact they hate it, but they have to make these noises to take the wind out of the sails of genuine patriotic opponents.

2) Racism

At this point we shall look at the racial nationalism angle. Granted, we have established that far left regimes can and do interweaving nationalism and patriotism into their political expression (even if only for cynical reasons). However, the Nazis were also racial nationalists. The leftist argues that this means the Nazis were not leftist, as left wingers cannot possibly be racist or anti-Semitic now, can they? Yeah right....

There are countless examples of leftist racism. In the USSR, whole ethnic groups could be up-rooted from their homelands and forcefully deported, be it to create the fabled "New Soviet Man" or as collective punishment such as when North Caucasian ethnic groups were deported for perceived disloyalty. Whole ethnic groups could be the subject of collective punishment for perceived crimes against Communism, such as when the Communists starved over 1 million Ukrainians to death. In Communist Vietnam, hill tribes people such as the Montagnards and Hmong are routinely persecuted by the Communist regime in Hanoi on the grounds their ethnicity makes them naturally more deserving of punishment. The black Marxists of Zimbabwe are also known for their undisguised anti-white racism, and have gleefully orchestrated a campaign of ethnic cleansing, property seizure and vilification against the whites.

3) Similar demographic target voter

The Nazi party appealed to the exact same constituency as the DKP (Communists). Both appealed to the lower middle and upper working class Germans who had been worst hit by the Wall Street Crash and its resultant global depression. If the Communists are far left and the Nazis are far right, then one assumes they would attract different voter groups. But they didn't, as they were in actual fact both simply sub-variants of the same far-left ideology.

4) Similar power seizure tactics

Both Nazism and Communism, have little that appeals to most voters, and thus their chances of electoral success are slim. The Communists realised early on that the masses would never accept Communism, and the Nazis also realised this. Both Communism and Nazism believed that their best tactic for winning power would be to seize power by force during a period of societal chaos and anarchy. For the Communists, this was called "revolutionary defeatism", which is outlined in more detail at this link. Essentially, it was to encourage proxy groups to stir up chaos and violence, until the current society collapsed, and in this window of opportunity, armed Bolsheviks could seize the organs of power.

Nazis also believed this; again, a period of chaos and societal breakdown was needed to create a window of opportunity which their activists could take advantage of. The only difference was that the Communists wanted to have a hand in starting the chaos, whilst the Nazis did not, believing it was best to simply prepare for the chaos eventually happening so they would be placed best to take advantage of it when it finally came. In some ultra-nationalist circles this is called a "Redeeming crisis", though it is by no means limited to these circles.

5) Contempt for innocent life

"One death is a tragedy, a million is statistic" - Stalin
" If the war is lost then it is of no concern to me if the people perish in it" - Hitler

Both of these far left leaders quotes epitomise the contempt for innocent life the far left has. The Nazis and Communists also racked up a fair body count in the C20th, with at least 100 million people killed by both. They did so because they did not care about innocent people, and this led them to either kill them themselves in massacres, or as a result of their bizarre social experiments, such as Stalins attempts to collectivise farming or similar one by Mao which was so bad, that Chinese peasants resorted to eating soil to try and remain alive, only to die of intestinal disease; Mao is said to have remarked that he was more than happy to have half of China's (then) 500 million die if thats what it took for his utopia to come about.

Both Communists and Nazis glorified violence. Official Nazi propaganda taught that war was the noblest human calling of all, and the Nazis believed that there vision of a utopia would only be complete once they had Lebensraum in which to build it, hence the launch of World War II. Communism also relished/relishes violence, aggression and confrontation, and even today, far left publications are filled with urges to "resist", "struggle", "fight on" etc. And the black Marxist BPP adopted the slogan "By any means necessary".

6) Re-invention of morality and human nature

Both Nazism and Communism re-invented morality; both believed there was no God as it was "the ultimate Jewish consequence" or "opiate of the masses", depending on whether you were Nazi or Communist. There was also a denial of the traditional Western moral view of the dignity of the individual, which was cast aside in favour of collectivism and deindividuation. Both Nazis and Communists expected their citizens to submerge their individuality into the sea of the collective masses, and to sacrifice themselves for this goal, until we had a "New Soviet Man" or "Ubermensch", again a different label for the same concept. Both of these mythological utopianites were men who had no traits to distinguish them from any other, and whose whole psychology revolved around serving the hive-like structure of the collectivist utopian society.

7) Belief in creating a utopia via the guidance of an all powerful ruling party

When the Nazis came to power, one of their first goals was to create a Volksgemeinschaft ("Peoples Community"), where all divisions based on class would be swept away, and all people would live together in a healthy state. One can already see the parallels between this "classless utopian" vision of the Nazis and the similar classless heaven on earth envisaged by Marxists.

The Nazis also believed that a temporary period would be needed to realign and re educate their population before this leap to a classless Volksgemeinschaft paradise could come about. This meant an all powerful inner party taking control of all organs of public culture, from theatre and music to the education system and print media. This was exactly what the Bolsheviks in Russia did when they came to power, as they too believed that there needed to be a temporary "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" when an all powerful inner party would lead the re-education and societal re-alignment of the masses to prepare them for the leap to the classless utopia. Again, no difference between the Communists and the Nazis.

Use of monitoring, gulags and slave labour

Both the Nazis and Communists also employed secret police forces to crush internal opposition, thus eliminating competing views of the future from interrupting their social engineering. In both cases, the police forces of Nazi Germany (Gestapo) and the USSR (NKVD, later KGB) operated with almost total power and employed an extensive number of informants who were encouraged to "denounce" their neighbours. Yet again, absolutely no difference between the Nazis and the Communists, as they were both far left movements.

Both the Nazis and Communists constructed elaborate camps where political opponents, real or imagined could be sent. These camps were characterised by forced labour, sexual abuse, forced participation in medical and military experiments and brutal working conditions. I would recommend Solzhenitsyn's book "Gulag" for anyone interested further in the conditions inside these camps. Political opponents were also used as forced labour; indeed, in Nazi Germany there were almost 5-10 million people working as slaves when the surrender came, and at any one time during the Cold War at least 250,000 people were detained in Gulags in the Soviet Union. Many of the civil engineering projects of the Stalin years were built using slave labourers.

9) Political narrative casting one group as the source of all evil

Both the Nazis and the Communists had political narratives in which one all powerful opponent stood between them and their heaven on earth. The only difference was what they called this group; for the Nazis it was "International Jewry" whilst for Communists it was the "bourgeoisie". In these narratives, the group in question were never capable of being part of the new utopia, were trying to use their control of banking and finance to prevent utopia from coming around, and the only option left therefore was to eliminate them altogether. For Nazis, this was "the Jews", whilst for the Communists, this was the bourgeoisie; as Pipes remarks, "Lenin hated what he perceived to be 'the bourgeoisie' with a destructive pattern that fully equaled Hitler's hatred of the Jews". This destructive pattern followed an ever escalating campaign of vilification towards the target group; property confiscation, legal bars, violence towards this group encouraged and un-punished by the authorities, and eventually starvation, deportation and killing.

For Communists, several famines were deliberately engineered so as to kill off "bourgeoisie" and the ones who miraculously survived were often put against a wall and shot by Red Army units. Many were also loaded onto cattle trucks and transported to gulags in Siberia. Lenin often urged his Red Guards to be "pitiless" with the people, and they did just that. The Nazis also used starvation, such as in the Warsaw ghetto where Jews were allowed to starve to death, before they were loaded onto cattle trucks and taken for "re-settlement"; and we all know what that was a euphemism for...

10) Desire to disarm and dominate the people

"...ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state" - Heinrich Himmler

In a truly free nation, the people rule the leaders, not the other way round. However, in tyranny, the reverse is true, with a small cabal dictating terms to the masses, and viewing them all as nothing more than cogs in the state machinery to serve the needs of "The People" or "The State". In such a state, a few heroic people will always resist, some forcefully. In the extreme states of the far left, citizenry are disarmed almost immediately, leaving them to the fate of the "party", and also leaving the people they choose to massacre and transport to gulags defenseless.

Conclusion

As we have seen, Nazism and Communism are/were indistinguishable. This similarity is not because, as leftists claim, because both Communist and Nazi states used similar tactics. The tactics were not the result as a coincidence; it was because the two systems were ideological twins, even if at least outwardly they were non-identical ones. Nazism and Communism are both far left ideologically; the brutal tactics they each employed were the natural outgrowth of ideologies that exalted collectivism, deindividuation and violence.

It is ironic that leftists, who are most prone to toss the epithet "Nazi" around, are actually closer to being Nazis than any Conservative will ever be...

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;

Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

Waitress: ...or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.

Wife: Have you got anything without spam?

Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Wife: I don't want ANY spam!

Man: Why can't she have egg bacon spam and sausage?

Wife: THAT'S got spam in it!

Man: Hasn't got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?

Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?

Waitress: Urgghh!

Wife: What do you mean 'Urgghh'? I don't like spam!

Wife: I don't like spam!

Man: Sshh, dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!

Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.

Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?

[we vs us]

Geez, Crash, you had a lot of free time this afternoon.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Crash Daily

Blah, blah, blah.

I think Water is coming to a boil. [}:)]

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Also, Chicken Little, about the comment above, regarding totalitarianism being able to come out of the left or right..., BINGO, you win a prize!

I just wanted to rub some Dim noses in it, that think the right is where it all comes from. It's called illustrating absurdity, with the absurd.

There are easily elements that can be argued from both sides. I still honestly think that there's more in the left, at least at this point in history, that points to the potential for totalitarianism, but I'm sure the OTHER side thinks the same about Conservatives. Well, I know they do.

"It's called illustrating absurdity, with the absurd."

It's called making an absurd statement and then attempting to crawdad your way back to credibility.  Good luck with that.

[Crash Daily]

I took a test along with fellow bloggers on another site. It's been a few years back. It showed the different ideological make ups of Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, Carter, Reagan and many other leaders of the past. There were Four basic ideological sections and dictators in every one.  

No need to try and recover "credibility" in the eyes of a non-factor. I know when I'm just trying to tweak someone, but believe what you want.

[Crash Daily]

I just found the site. It doesn't show all the same political figures and it's a little different than I remember. The bad guys aren't in all four quadrants just the extreme left and right authoritarian portions. Go test and see where you land.

Just as I scored the last time I tested, I'm almost at the center, but just slightly to the Authoritarian right. Liberals think Republicans are extreme, because they are so far to the left, they don't recognize the center any longer.

My political compass Score:
Economic Left/Right: 1.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.28

That's 1.25 tiny squares up and 1.28 tiny squares to the right. When you see the grid, you'll see what I mean.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test