Thunder karma

[waterboy]

Its a different ethic here that I think is illustrated by our choice in arena developments. OKC built an arena that is functional, was cheap to build and non controversial. Simply one part of the puzzle. That allowed them to focus on other parts of the puzzle as well. Sort of like building a Chevy Malibu.

We had to go the champagne route and build an iconic structure that cost a lot, was no more functional and engendered controversy. Other peoples views were steamrollered. That meant fewer large projects, like river development, soccer stadium, light rail etc. We instead spread v2025 funds around like pork at a session of congress. Made a lot of small groups happy, but at the expense of momentum.

We just look so petty, criticizing a more aggressive sister city instead of taking note of what works, and what doesn't. OKC has some built in advantages, always have. But they obviously have a better leadership track record as well. If Tulsa were located in central Oklahoma as the capitol with our last two decades of leadership intact....we would still lag far behind OKC in development. We would have filled in the Canadian River and paved it over. We would have razed the Murrah building area and leased it out as parking. We would have destroyed the warehouse district now known as the Bricktown and replaced it with...parking.

Stop blaming OKC and start paying attention.

edit ps: Save your venom kids. I love Tulsa and am proud of the things we did do right, like saving old innercity neighborhoods. OKC did not do a good job of that. The one thing that will draw tax funds into Tulsa is success at something. That something will come to us soon enough. It may be downtown rebirth or intelligent management of suburban growth. But frankly, until leadership style changes from stuffy, trust fund, patriarchal to more populist, we're dead in the water. Until we resolve the burbs vs downtown argument nothing good happens on either side. None of the rest of the state holds us in as high esteem as we do.  And I don't mean governmental leadership. Community leadership.

[cannon_fodder]

Good points Waterboy, however... I'm glad we built a top notch arena.  We came late to the party in the first place.  And why build a structure that will last generations that is less than impressive?  

/don't want to open up that can of worms really, just throwing my 2 cents in.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Good points Waterboy, however... I'm glad we built a top notch arena.  We came late to the party in the first place.  And why build a structure that will last generations that is less than impressive?  

/don't want to open up that can of worms really, just throwing my 2 cents in.

We went to the Arena this weekend for the first time to see a hockey game. Wow! At night it is very impressive and gave me a sense of pride that we built such a cool building and took such a risk with its location. Parking was simple. The area was pristine. In the final analysis of the evening though, it was a hockey game and the interior was pretty much like any other public arena. In fact it reminded me a lot of the old Civic Center Arena. So, though I agree with you, I would have had the same experience at any well designed arena. I used the arena as an example of our different outlooks. OKC simply had a different philosophy of development. This isn't the first time that Tulsa went for champagne over beer! That outlook has its costs.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Good points Waterboy, however... I'm glad we built a top notch arena.  We came late to the party in the first place.  And why build a structure that will last generations that is less than impressive?  

/don't want to open up that can of worms really, just throwing my 2 cents in.

We went to the Arena this weekend for the first time to see a hockey game. Wow! At night it is very impressive and gave me a sense of pride that we built such a cool building and took such a risk with its location. Parking was simple. The area was pristine. In the final analysis of the evening though, it was a hockey game and the interior was pretty much like any other public arena. In fact it reminded me a lot of the old Civic Center Arena. So, though I agree with you, I would have had the same experience at any well designed arena. I used the arena as an example of our different outlooks. OKC simply had a different philosophy of development. This isn't the first time that Tulsa went for champagne over beer! That outlook has its costs.

Wow, I could not disagree any more with you on the comparison with the Civic Center aka Maxwell house.

I've held season tickets to the Oilers for about six seasons, and to compare the interior of the Civic Center to this building is apples and oranges.  The old CC feels like a dungeon; this building has none of that feel.  It's warm and inviting and open.

I'm sure some people would accuse me of being a 'sunshine pumper'.  But I've been to the CC enough since 1996 to feel that I can make an honest assessment.

Of course, that's just my asssessment, YMMV.

Water, where did you sit?  I sit in section 101 two rows off the glass.

[waterboy]

We were up a little higher. Section 110 around "K". Friends gave us tix. Comfortable seats too. !!$9 Margaritas?!!

Loved the game and yes it was warm, inviting and way, way, too loud! After a few minutes we kind of forgot it was "the" Arena. I predict its success as a venue, just think we could have had the same comfort at a reduced price and that's what some cities have done.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

!!$9 Margaritas?!!

That was your problem. Hockey and beer go together, not margaritas.

You probably tried to find sushi or french cheese.

After an Oiler game, I think we should all take some sticks over to the ice rink on the side of the building and recreate some of the action.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

!!$9 Margaritas?!!

That was your problem. Hockey and beer go together, not margaritas.

You probably tried to find sushi or french cheese.

After an Oiler game, I think we should all take some sticks over to the ice rink on the side of the building and recreate some of the action.

The way they've been playing lately, there might be more purse-swinging than stick swinging.

[waterboy]

I didn't care that they lost. It was a close game with a shootout to end it. I will go back. On this rink, I could actually follow the puck, see them missing the puck and see their faces squashed up against the glass.

They had beer?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I didn't care that they lost. It was a close game with a shootout to end it. I will go back. On this rink, I could actually follow the puck, see them missing the puck and see their faces squashed up against the glass.

They had beer?

If you come on Tuesdays, the beer is $2 as well as hot dogs.

[joiei]

Thunder is now 3 and 26 according to the sports report tonight.  How frigging embarrasing is that.  OKC can have the LOSERS.  I want my tax money back.

[waterboy]

Jo- not unusual for an expansion team, a transplanted team or a team with new ownership to start out with dismal record. St.Louis Cardinals, Dallas Cowboys, LA Dodgers, etc. It takes a while to get the right formula. True fans of the sport remain loyal and supportive.

[cannon_fodder]

Actually, the NFL franchises complained that their "expansion" teams did too well.  The rules had to be adjusted after the Jaguars did well as a new team (and others).  But really, this is a transplant team - not an expansion.

There is no real reason for a transplant team to suddenly suck worse than any other team in history.  Franchise or otherwise.  Look at the records, the transplant teams are not the worst teams (NBA expansions do poorly:  Jazz in NO, Magic, Miami... but not transplants).  Many hardly skipped a beat.  The Lakers, Charlotte, the Jazz... all did just fine.

This could be historic,  9-73 is the worst record ever for an NBA team going to the 76ers in 1972.  Mavericks had 11 wins. Clippers had 13 wins.  Certainly they could via for the top 10 worst teams all time.

They weren't good before they moved, but now they are really bad.  Doesn't really reflect on the city, not like they select the players or coach them.  But certainly a winning team helps the imagine of a city subconsciously (two way street?).