re: City Corruption and PAC money

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by DowntownNow

Waterboy - Sorry to disappoint you again with facts but as I'm sure you know, I already replied in the other "corruption" thread (where you have posted as well) that this has been going on for years and I already placed blame on previous administrations for not doing anything.  I haven't forgiven anything from the past but what can you do about it today?  

The simple fact of the matter is, it is now Taylor's administration that has the ball and her failure to do anything with regards to the numerous audit requests.  It's her adminstration in place when proof of fraud and such have come to light from a third party.  I'm focusing my disapproval with her handling of the situation since she is the one in office and can and should effect change.  

In politics it's common to be handed over the problems from your predecessor, look at the new President - economy, wars, foreign policy, etc.  It's how you choose to walk in the first day and start handling them.  Just because someone else started the ball rolling or turned a blind eye doesn't mean your hands are clean or you get a pass because you're the new name on the door.  This issue has been raised time and time again, most recently during the Street's campaign where Tayklor said she listened to the concerns of the citizens...must not have listened too hard, and must be deaf if you've had a City Councilor in your ear since April 08 asking and helping you formulate a plan for an audit.  Now I know things move slow in government but wow...but 9 mos to order an audit?  That's just laughable.

I don't care for the devisivness anymore than you or how we are being perceived by outsiders.  I dont want Tulsa to become the next Chicago, but I believe there is a rising tide that people are fed up with not being paid attention to by our elected officials.  If we don't bother to question the status quo then we have no room to gripe or hope for better.

I'm right there with Conan too...yes, let's impugn the last 40 years of Tulsa politics but what good does that do today?  How are you going to hold those that are out of office accountable now?  

Was there a problem before? Yes.  Is there a problem today? Yes.  Is anything going to change if we raise our voice?  Hopefully.

Lets get this out of the way. To be blunt, I don't care for your condescension. You don't dissapoint me and facts are in the eyes of the beholder. Judges decide facts. You hold Taylor responsible and think she should either fix this long term problem or shoulder the failure and exit office.

So two things come to mind. One, with your reasoning, you must hold "W" responsible for the 911 failure. Happened on his watch even though he was aware of former administrations failed efforts to track down and kill Al Queda and Bin Laden. Instead, even though we had an embassy bombed, and a ship bombed, he had not mounted any effort to punish the aggressors. Right? I doubt you'll find many supporters of that argument here, in fact his re-election proved no one else did either. 911 was the result of a process that each of the last 8 administrations helped create.

Second, you seem to ignore the realities of management. Unless you set your sights on being the next martyr of the month, a leader must do a cost/benefit analysis of any decision. I laid this out to you yet you have not responded. She's not Lincoln or Ghandi, she's a mere mayor of a bloodthirsty political city. Here is her cost of unilaterally effecting a PW audit by a third party:

-Cost of audit. Not budgeted. Money would come from appropriations of tax money that is already being spent on salaried auditors whose functions are ...to audit. If those current employees cannot do the audit reasonably, then why are they there? Are they untrustworthy? Why? And what if it is unproductive? Then she really catches hell because she totally wasted taxpayer money or is percieved to have failed in cleaning up the corruption.

-Demoralized employees. Its bad enough everyone thinks all of PW is corrupt, now the rest of the city is suspect. From auditors to cops, everyone is considered on the take. Without employee support even the best leaders fail. She fails, Tulsa suffers.

-PW and Hardt obviously are strong worthy opponents or previous mayors and councils would have taken them on. You expect her to take them on without the full support of the council? That is a serious cost of doing business. If she can get the 100% support of the often adversarial, ambitious council members to start the process, then she at least can contemplate some success without political sniping.

There are other costs as well, but if she nuts up and just does the right thing, what are her benefits?-

-The undying love of conservative republicans who desire smaller, more efficient government, less taxes and l'aizze faire? Not likely.

-More businesses moving in from outside the city looking for a clean wholesome community to operate in? Maybe, but thats debatable. I doubt we lost oil companies because of corruption in PW.

- Taxpayer thankfulness that someone was watching out for their interests. Yes!

Bottom line is that if her detractors really want less corruption in government and want her to spearhead the fight, they will stop calling for her demise, stop suing her, stop calling her names and put pressure on the council to support a fair audit.

[Rico]

Tulsa Public Works Director Charles Hardt was not available for comment.


Did anyone else catch the article regarding the "Goals" for the Tulsa Metro Chamber for 2009?

One listed was the formation of a Tulsa Metro Chamber PAC... This to promote their "Political Agenda".

Does this mean that the "Hotel Motel Tax" monies that the TMC receive can be used for a Political Agenda?

In my mind, if your going to clean house,... as far as corruption within the City, County, etc all of these items need to be looked at as possible contributing factors.


If done correctly... This could be turned into quite a Political coup for the Taylor Administration.

Hope this is not too far off topic.... Maybe just one of the symptoms of a " Hardt Attack "

 

[}:)]

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Tulsa Public Works Director Charles Hardt was not available for comment.


Did anyone else catch the article regarding the "Goals" for the Tulsa Metro Chamber for 2009?

One listed was the formation of a Tulsa Metro Chamber PAC... This to promote their "Political Agenda".

Does this mean that the "Hotel Motel Tax" monies that the TMC receive can be used for a Political Agenda?

In my mind, if your going to clean house,... as far as corruption within the City, County, etc all of these items need to be looked at as possible contributing factors.


If done correctly... This could be turned into quite a Political coup for the Taylor Administration.

Hope this is not too far off topic.... Maybe just one of the symptoms of a " Hardt Attack "

 

[}:)]

Anything coming out of Taylor the Tyrant's mouth right now is just empty rhetoric and CYA.

For example, remember how Queen Kathy promised to stop holding private state of the city addresses at the Metro Chamber and make them public while running for office? Where have all her state of the city addresses taken place since she's taken office?

[Conan71]

AA, what happened?  Did you try to pick Mayor Taylor up at the Leake auction one year and she shunned you?

You've never offered a single objective opinion of her.  

[Wrinkle]

Reacted today like a true politician.

Made 'changes' in the methodology to assure that cannot happen again. Leaves complete authority in PW dept.

Ordered a forensic audit of particular path/process and not entire PW dept.

Just enough to look like something's happening when none of that will do much, playing odds it won't happen again during her term.

We need top to bottom fiscal audit of PW and a new Director, oversight.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Reacted today like a true politician.

Made 'changes' in the methodology to assure that cannot happen again. Leaves complete authority in PW dept.

Ordered a forensic audit of particular path/process and not entire PW dept.

Just enough to look like something's happening when none of that will do much, playing odds it won't happen again during her term.

We need top to bottom fiscal audit of PW and a new Director, oversight.

Like I said, PR, empty rhetoric and CYA.

Now she's even backing off terminating the contracts for the companies involved and removing them from the city's list of preapproved bidders.

[TeeDub]

Ah, the news cameras have stopped looking so back to business as usual.

I love how the sheep have such short attention spa..

OH LOOK A MONKEY!

[waterboy]

Not exactly out of camera range, just not the local one inch deep variety.

I watched the mayor go before the Council Public Works committee on TGov on Tuesday. It was good to see adults behaving like adults. Some were testy, some were defensive, Taylor was neither. They were all looking for details and answers. It was affirming. This is the process necessary unless you just start firing, investigating and suing.

Sometimes a dancing monkey is just what the public needs.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy
Sometimes a dancing monkey is just what the public needs.

That is going to be my slogan when I run for political office.

[waterboy]

You just tipped your hand! Executive or legislative?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You just tipped your hand! Executive or legislative?

It's the Digestive branch. Consumer in Chief.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You just tipped your hand! Executive or legislative?

It's the Digestive branch. Consumer in Chief.

[]Maybe I could finally be appointed Commander of the Inland Seas (Tulsa County).

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You just tipped your hand! Executive or legislative?

It's the Digestive branch. Consumer in Chief.

[]Maybe I could finally be appointed Commander of the Inland Seas (Tulsa County).

I could be the Minister of Malcontents.[]

[shadows]

Lets have an audit.  Lets go back even before the final vote on changing the charter.  Who is going to challenge lifers that spend their entire life running the city but was never elected, only followed the mainstream of city employees looking for the pension so they can continue a life-stile they become accustom to outside the city.  The fraud and corruption gained strength after the end of WW11.  Among any group there is always one who feels he/she has been mistreated then they exercise their grievances by becoming the informer.  One needs to be very naïve to believe the we have found the spark and quench the fire of frauds that has burned for over an half of a century in the city.

We are going to have an audit.  We have selected one, but who on going to instruct him how they want it audited?  We have an auditing department but that is elected and the city lifers ignore the city auditor's request for information so one of the insiders exercises a vendetta by bringing the FBI and other federal offices into a headliner episode that will go no where.  There will be many inter-office meeting and a good chance they will be loads of  shredded paper to recycle.

It is all in the capitalism system where the capitalist finances the venture that give jobs to produce items for trade.   We have a whole new glass building that we didn't need, which we are not sure who owns, because we have to ask permission to put a sign near or on it, that is being paid for by the capitalist called the working poor.  It seems to be full of employees that could not see the millions of dollars being passed  around under the tables until an disgruntled participant screamed fraud as if in a crowded theater.  When it is all past and no smoke is apparent, it will be the business as usual will continue as it has in the past.  We can have an audit then we should have an audit of the auditor to make sure we have not been shortchanged again.