Back at it and now...Grant to fund 18 Tulsa police officers

[RecycleMichael]

My idiotic remarks can stand by themselves, thank you.

[tim huntzinger]

Said without a trace of irony.

Idiotic talk here, fo shur! Increase the number of potential applicants, keep more 'retiring' ossifers on the force, pay less for more.  Stooooopid.  Give traffic cops a cut of the tickets they write, or at least designate funds go to force.  IDIOT! What am I thinking?

[TUalum0982]

Just reacting to being called a POS.  Kind of unwarranted IMHO but if you want to act silly well there you go.  And be sure to tell your wife that next time she gets you panties to get the ones with the frills.  That is so you! Ha ha!  YOU go away! You ask for ideas and I give them and you jumpskip those just to go and be all snarky.  I think Victor's Secrets has a sale on hose.  So YOU get going. Chop chop.

No academy this year? Bunch of geezers getting off the roads with their cruisers? Retiring? At what, 50? 55? How many of you can do that?  No one but our civil 'servants.' We need to do a stop-gap on that retirement BS.  Those civil 'servants' damn well better be ready to train, mentor, grab a radio and be ready to get back on the horse. Retire at 65 with the rest of us.  Oh wait.  That would 70.  The TPD wants to evoke some air of elitism or esprit de corps but all they succeed in doing is creating an 'us vs them' attitude and demand we pay up - or else.  Any other racket that would be called extortion.  Sorry that I want to put more badges on the street and am just brainstorming ways to do that while challenging the dysfunctional, Federal-oversight-requiring system that we have in place now.

Say, Wilbur, we all know you call women 'b*tches,' but do you agree with Conan that the Sherriff's deputies are the stupidest bunch of goons with guns in the state, and that the majority of them could not make it into the academy?  Do you also believe that the majority of people reading this or posting on this forum would also be rejected for the TPD force?

Wrong wrong wrong.  Both of my parents retired before the age of 55.  As did several people that I have worked with in the past.  It is not that uncommon, especially if you start saving at a young age.  Don't get mad at the rest of us who were financially responsible and started saving early.

I challenge you to go and test for TPD Know Nothing and lets see how far you make it.  That is assuming you have a college degree and are under the age of 37 (I think that is the limit). 

[DowntownNow]

While I said I had to agree with Kathy Taylor and Chief Palmer on this one topic, it didnt take long for Taylor to screw up what little hope I had that she might have come to her senses and wanted to put Tulsa's interests ahead of her own.

Councilors demand to talk with mayor
by: BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 05, 2009
8/5/2009 3:43:43 AM

Tulsa city councilors demanded Tuesday to speak directly to Mayor Kathy Taylor rather than hearing from her staff or through the media about the federal stimulus grant awarded to the city to hire 18 police officers.

"I want the mayor to sit down with us herself," Councilor Rick Westcott said during the council's committee meetings. "We deserve that much."

Councilor G.T. Bynum said Taylor and Police Chief Ron Palmer — not their designees — need to be at next week's committee meetings, and the agenda item will reflect that.

"I have a number of serious concerns that need to be addressed," he said.

Councilor Jack Henderson said that for the council to make an informed decision on whether to accept the grant, "the right people need to be at this table."

Mayoral spokeswoman Kim MacLeod said Taylor will be out of town next week but that an e-mail will be sent inviting the councilors to discuss the matter with her later this week.

The council's reactions follow Taylor's appearance over the weekend on CNN and in other media interviews, in which she accused councilors of "playing politics" with the stimulus money.

On the hot seat Tuesday was city Chief Risk Officer Cathy Criswell, who regularly gives the council updates about the city's stimulus-related applications and awards.

"We expect to come back to you with a full presentation next week, but we are still working on the numbers," she said.

Tulsa recently received word that it was awarded a $3.5 million Community Oriented Policing Services grant.

If accepted by the council, the grant would pay for the 18 officers' salaries and benefits for three years, but the city would be required to pay for their equipment, training and at least a fourth year of employment.

City officials estimate that it will cost about $850,000 to equip the new officers and $1.25 million for their fourth-year salaries.

Both Taylor and Palmer have said publicly that the salaries shouldn't be a problem because 25 to 30 officers leave the force in any one year.

It's the immediate $850,000 needed to equip the new officers that is the main concern.

Criswell said the equipment total is the maximum amount that would be needed if all new equipment was purchased.

Police officials are looking to see what is already in stock to present a "more realistic" figure next week.

Taylor crossed the line when she went on national television to publicly call out City Councilors that are questioning Tulsa's ability to pay the upfront costs associated with the acceptance of this grant.  While professing that some councilors are "playing politics" with this money...Taylor herself demonstrated yet again what it really means to play politics and did it on a national stage no less.  More posturing without substance on Taylor's part.

COT Chief Risk Officer Cathy Criswell responded to Councilor questions in yesterday's committee meeting that she would need to research further to get them a better understanding of how and when those upfront costs could be made available and from where.  IMHO that is all the Council has been asking for quite some time now.  The Mayor's role in this is to find the grant, apply for the grant and suggest possible ways to fund the requirements...but she has chosen not to do this.  The Mayor has provided no information upon which any rational individual, faced with the budget crisis that Tulsa has, can make a decision upon either way. 

I believe the Mayor should have taken the time to formulate a concrete plan of action that included possible funding mechanisms and sat with the Council to review, change or approve...to discuss and debate.  Instead she wasted her time taking to the national airwaves to promote the very devisiveness she claims continues to tear our city apart...seemingly never realizing she is the biggest reason for it.

Pathetic display of political posturing.  While I believe we need to accept the grant and put more officers on the street, it needs to be done in such a fashion as to not jeopardize our financial viability in both the short and long term.  I applaud the Councilors for merely wanting answers before rubber stamping such an approval for the Mayor.

[DowntownNow]

In an amazing bit of irony...the Tulsa World published this editorial calling for Taylor to apologize to the Council for her actions on national television.

Playing politics
by: World's Editorial Writers
Tuesday, August 04, 2009
8/4/2009 4:42:13 AM

Mayor Kathy Taylor went on national television over the weekend to push her plan to accept $3.5 million in federal stimulus money (at a cost of $844,000 that the city doesn't have) and to accuse city councilors who have questioned the idea of "playing politics."

We fail to see the reasoning.

Does the mayor think councilors are playing politics because they question her plan to spend more money on police immediately after they approved her plan to slash the police and fire department budgets to balance the city's budget?

It isn't playing politics; it's two different opinions of the city's current economic condition. The mayor owes the councilors an apology, especially since they happen to be right this time.

The city just got through pushing all of its employees into eight unpaid furlough days this year because there isn't enough money to do the business of city government.

Now the mayor wants to accept $3.5 million in federal stimulus money to pay for 18 new police officers for three years. But there's a catch: The city has to pay about $844,000 to train and equip the officers and commit to paying the officers' full salary in the fourth year.

Other than the fact that the mayor would be committing future city governments to spend money they might not have is the main point: We don't have $844,000 right now.

If we have $844,000, maybe it should be used to pay for the officers we've already trained and equipped.

The mayor says the city can't afford to turn down the federal money. There is, however, a certain reality to being broke. The city can't do everything that might make long-term sense if it doesn't have the short-term cash.

Poor people pay rent not because they aren't interested in building equity but because they can't afford mortgage payments.

The mayor says accepting the federal money is in the public safety interest of the city. She has a point and the stimulus money cannot be used to reimburse either the cops or other city workers. And, it is difficult, and sometimes unwise, to pass up money that can be used for public safety.

The mayor and the City Council need to get the city's public safety employees more involved in the decision. They might consider even putting it to a vote of the police officers and firefighters who are taking the brunt of the city's budget problems by accepting the furloughs and see if they agree that accepting the money is a good idea.

It's difficult to turn down money that is sorely needed to help the city out. But before the money is accepted or declined, a fair and reasonable discussion of the matter, by all involved, is a necessary and important step. Let's take the politics out of this one.

[TUalum0982]

WOW.  So let me get this straight.  The Federal Govt is going to give us 3.5 million dollars and in return we just have to come up with 844K for equipment and training?  What about the police officers that will be retiring over the next 3yrs?  It is not like we are actually adding working bodies to the force, but rather trying to just MAINTAIN the levels we currently have, which obviously will go down if we dont have an academy anytime soon. 

I am sure some local business' would not mind helping out to come up with a measly 844K, come on!

[RecycleMichael]

I disagree with your assessments.

Here is what I think happened...CNN calls her and asks her to appear on their show, saying that they had heard comments that Tulsa was considering turning down stimulus money for additional police. Tulsa was the only city in the country they could find that was considering turning down the money.

The Mayor and the police chief think that they have a way to accept the money and pay for the additional charges. She wants to take the money. The republicans on the council are doing all they can to posture themselves against a democrat President and Mayor five weeks before an election.

Once the TV cameras are rolling in their own meeting, the councilors play their role perfectly. The Tulsa World plays along, desperate to have local news that causes people to read their words.

I don't disagree that the Mayor should apologize if the councilors were caught off-guard by her appearance on a national show talking about them. I knew she was going to be on the show because on read it on her twitter and facebook posts the night before. It wasn't a secret.

Back to the real issue, should the city take the money? Politics aside, if we were going to hire them anyway through an academy class planned already, what is the big deal? Take the money, hire the cops and find a way to equip them. The police department has some smart people (degreed and everything) who can probably find a way to share resources, get a few more miles out of some rolling stock, and make it work.

The police chief thinks he can make it work. It is his department and he has tremendous experience in the job. Why do some councilors think they need to tell him how to do the job?

The Tuesday city council subcommittee meetings have become a way for certain councilors to berate city staff and volunteers for city boards. I don't believe that was the intent.  

[DowntownNow]

Michael, have to disagree with you yet again. 

Mayor Taylor has not sat down and discussed specific plans to pay for the training and equiping the 18 new officers allowed under the federal COPS grant.  Cathy Criswell said as much at Tuesday's meeting, replying to questions of how to fund it saying she will have to report back to the Council next week once she researches and has more specifics.

Chief Palmer as early as this last Monday, Aug 3, said he had no definitive idea how to pay the $844,000...only saying that "his staff is looking for ways to come up with the money through such things as extending the service life of its patrol cars."

From the Tulsa World report Monday, Aug 3 - "Palmer and Mayor Kathy Taylor said the biggest obstacle is the equipment cost, estimated at $850,000."  So, sorry Michael, as of Monday and Tuesday, neither Taylor nor Palmer had a plan in place to present to the Council but Taylor felt it was better to take the fight to the national media before the committee meeting Tuesday.  That is cynicism at its best.

In order to have dialogue, there must be something presented to converse about...so far Taylor, as the self-promoted CEO of the City, has yet to provide anything that in any way says "here Councilors, I propose we fund the $850,000 this way, any questions or other ideas?"

In the CNN report, they never reported Tulsa was the only city they could find that was considering turning down the grant.  They reported that Tulsa was one of the Cities to get stimulus money and that there is an issue of whether Tulsa can fund the necessary upfront costs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5r4OQAVExs

Taylor also went on to say it was important to keep the Council fully informed...but fact is, she has failed to do that.

Taylor did highlight one possible funding source, monies held by TARE.  The Tulsa World has reported that the Council is less likely to support that source as a generator for the upfront costs for officers since those reserve monies are essentially overpayments for trash services and are used to subsidize trash service for the citizens that already paid in essentially.

But back to the real issue...Palmer and Taylor should put forth their concrete plan with all its specifics before the Council and the public so that everyone is properly informed and a decision made based on the facts.  That is all the Council has been asking for..."dont tell us you have a plan...show it to us, and if we can see its a viable one, then yes, lets accept it...if its not, we reject it....but give us a plan"

[RecycleMichael]

Does not the council need to have a plan to add new officers before they go and attack free money from the feds?

The republican councilors are acting like they run the town, yet have someone else to blame for everything that is going wrong. Perfect position during an election...

Yes, the Mayor and the council should communicate better. But have you watched those sub committee meetings lately? What happened to make this whole process one of distrust and attack? Why can't the council do anything off camera? Can't the concerns be addressed any other way than "come sit in a designated chair while we surround you and question your every motive"?

If you could take the politics out (impossible, I know) there would be a solution. Instead, all he have the Mayor and the chief (hired to run the city and the police department) on one side and the legislative branch (frankly, unable to do anything lately but complain IMHO) on the other side.

Whose opinion on staffing and federal grant money for police issues do I believe? 

[cannon_fodder]

Doesn't every politician accuse every other politician of playing politics with political issues as part of their own ongoing politics?

Budget concerns are of course politics.  The police force is controlled by politicians.  Inherently any decision regarding the two would be a political decision no matter which direction you decide. 

It is ridiculous to accuse someone of playing politics with a political issue, and it's equally ridiculous to be offended by someone accusing you of playing politics when you are a politician.

[DTowner]

Going on national TV and accusing the council of playing politics was a cheap shot by Mayor Taylor that really makes sense only if she is trying to elevate her national profile.  Many on the council have behaved badly on many issues, but asking reasonable questions on this issue does not fall into that category.  Even the Tulsa World got this one right.

If the Mayor/Police Chief have a plan to save $850,000 to cover the cost of accepting the stimulus money, then let's hear it.  However, if the Mayor/Police Chief have such a plan, where was it when 8-day furloughs were implemented to close the budget gap?

[DowntownNow]

And it just gets better...

Police chief says department slashes amount needed to train and equip new officers

by: BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 11, 2009


Police Chief Ron Palmer said Tuesday his department has cut by nearly half the budget needed to train and equip the 18 new officers that the city could hire using a federal stimulus grant.

The initial estimate of $844,000 has now been whittled down to $396,600, Palmer told the Tulsa World.

Rather than each officer getting a new vehicle, Palmer said, the department would keep some of its old vehicles that were to be sold off. Also, there will not be a need for every officer to have a speed enforcement radar unit.

How to fund the equipment has been a source of concern for city councilors, who also have grappled with how the city would pay the $1.25 million fourth-year salaries of officers.

Tulsa recently received word that it was awarded the $3.5 million Community Oriented Policing Services grant.

If accepted by the council, the grant would pay for the 18 officers' salaries and benefits for three years. The city would be required to equip them and keep them on for at least an additional year.

"I see this as a nominal investment at the front end," Palmer said. "I don't see how we can leave this money laying on the table."

The chief said his department can possibly absorb a portion of the $396,600 needed immediately. Finance officials also are eyeing some of the city's capital funds that have balances.

Both Palmer and Mayor Kathy Taylor maintain the salaries shouldn't be a problem because 25 to 30 officers leave the force in any one year.

Some councilors have said the grant-funded officers are not meant to supplant any officers the city would hire anyway.

But Palmer said the grant is meant to push the manpower beyond the city's authorized strength, which is 780 and would be taken to 798. The force actually has about 820 officers.

The Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 93 has endorsed accepting the grant. Its police members, along with all city employees, are taking eight furlough days this fiscal year because of the city's budget crisis.

The city has 90 days from the end of July to decide whether or not to accept the grant money.

The mayor and Palmer are expected to give the council a more detailed presentation next week.

There is something very telling when the TPD can find a way to suddenly slash costs to provide the equipment & training needed for something the Mayor has now nationally endorsed by her stunt on CNN.

Where was the fiscal responsibility when it was '09-'10 budget time? This simply lends more credibility to City Councilor Bill Martinson's arguments when he said the TPD was being handed too much of the third penny sales tax for its budget while strangling the other City departments.  Same goes for the Fire Dept...wonder what they can save. 

Its amazing that it takes something like this to make this Chief, Department and City Officials really look at making the costs and efficiencies count.

[Wilbur]

And it just gets better...

Police chief says department slashes amount needed to train and equip new officers

by: BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 11, 2009


Police Chief Ron Palmer said Tuesday his department has cut by nearly half the budget needed to train and equip the 18 new officers that the city could hire using a federal stimulus grant.

The initial estimate of $844,000 has now been whittled down to $396,600, Palmer told the Tulsa World.

Rather than each officer getting a new vehicle, Palmer said, the department would keep some of its old vehicles that were to be sold off. Also, there will not be a need for every officer to have a speed enforcement radar unit.

How to fund the equipment has been a source of concern for city councilors, who also have grappled with how the city would pay the $1.25 million fourth-year salaries of officers.

Tulsa recently received word that it was awarded the $3.5 million Community Oriented Policing Services grant.

If accepted by the council, the grant would pay for the 18 officers' salaries and benefits for three years. The city would be required to equip them and keep them on for at least an additional year.

"I see this as a nominal investment at the front end," Palmer said. "I don't see how we can leave this money laying on the table."

The chief said his department can possibly absorb a portion of the $396,600 needed immediately. Finance officials also are eyeing some of the city's capital funds that have balances.

Both Palmer and Mayor Kathy Taylor maintain the salaries shouldn't be a problem because 25 to 30 officers leave the force in any one year.

Some councilors have said the grant-funded officers are not meant to supplant any officers the city would hire anyway.

But Palmer said the grant is meant to push the manpower beyond the city's authorized strength, which is 780 and would be taken to 798. The force actually has about 820 officers.

The Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 93 has endorsed accepting the grant. Its police members, along with all city employees, are taking eight furlough days this fiscal year because of the city's budget crisis.

The city has 90 days from the end of July to decide whether or not to accept the grant money.

The mayor and Palmer are expected to give the council a more detailed presentation next week.

There is something very telling when the TPD can find a way to suddenly slash costs to provide the equipment & training needed for something the Mayor has now nationally endorsed by her stunt on CNN.

Where was the fiscal responsibility when it was '09-'10 budget time? This simply lends more credibility to City Councilor Bill Martinson's arguments when he said the TPD was being handed too much of the third penny sales tax for its budget while strangling the other City departments.  Same goes for the Fire Dept...wonder what they can save. 

Its amazing that it takes something like this to make this Chief, Department and City Officials really look at making the costs and efficiencies count.

Third-penny money isn't handed out by anyone other then the taxpayer.  Each city department requests items be added to the list of third-penny projects, which is then whittled down to a list presented to the voters.  Each item has to be a capital cost ($100,000 or more).  Voters then approve or disapprove the list.  If approved, those funds HAVE to be spent on the items approved by the voters.  The spending of third-penny money is overseen by a citizen panel.

I haven't looked at a list of projects for the past couple of third-penny projects, but I'm fairly confident Public Works gets the most money.