Tulsa Planning Commission May 21st

[debaliz]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

TMAPC is bought and paid for.  That whole cadre, maybe save for 1 or 2, should be disbanded and reformed.  There should be a requirement that at least 2 members are picked from the community at large and have NO connections to developers.

I absolutely agree that TMAPC is bought and paid for, and so is INCOG.  I have limited experience with both of these organizations, but what experience I have had has been totally negative!  I also believe that our city councilors and bought and paid for.  In particular, Dennis Troyer.  That man couldn't be more ignorant unless he was certifiable as being mentally retarded.  He thinks EVERYONE is as stupid as he is.  What is also so shocking is that he got voted in again!  This man is corrupt, too.  I guarantee he's in somebody's pocket deep.  District 6 is going down the tubes fast, and we have got to stop it.  He is not working for us, people.  There is a rezoning meeting held by the TMAPC on 6/4/08 @ 1:30.  The developers want to rezone from agricultural to Industrial.  145th E. Ave. and 11th St.  We cannot let this happen!  Everyone, please try to come and speak out against this travesty!  These are some powerful people, but if we work together, we CAN make a difference!  Let's show them that they can't just put in what they want in our neighborhood without a good fight!

[PonderInc]

If you have "limited experience" with both organizations then please don't generalize from the specific to the whole. ("I once saw a dog bite a kid.  Therefore, all dogs bite kids, and must be put down."  There's a word for this type of fallacy, but I'm too lazy to Google it...)

I know some very bright, thoughtful, forward-thinking people who are passionate about making Tulsa an amazing place...who also happen to work for INCOG or sit on the TMAPC.

There's plenty of room for criticism and debate, but it's ridiculous to accuse everyone involved of being dishonest or "bought."  

It's just not true.

[Rico]

^
On the brighter side of the street.

Tony Randall once owned a house just down the block from this proposed development.[]

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

That was ours.  

I heard it was a marathon, but I didn't hear that it was any kind of fiasco.  We hoped to develop the density we feel advantageous to the area but unfortunately that is  not what the city and the people wish, so we are happy to abide by that ruling.

Spoon, you are too sensitive, this is what we do every day, and we usually anticipate whatever response we get.  We usually have our developers and attorney's meet with the neighbors long before the planning meetings so that we know what we need to design for the developer and for the good of the community.  This was no big deal!

The conceptual elevations for the 4 we anticipated were already developed ahead of time.  They do indeed have amazing terraces on the back that view the downtown skyline.  Each floor also offers this view from entertaining areas to bedrooms.  I believe they are about 2,700 sq. ft. each.

Once I get the go-ahead, I will probably be doing some photorealistic renderings of the project.  Hopefully the 4 units will still meet the developers profit model and we will go forward.

I'll post more images as we develop them.



 

Whatever you do... keep the one pitched roof, its what makes the whole thing work. Costs a bit more to do, but really takes the whole thing up a notch versus just being flat all the way across.


Nice touch.

[debaliz]

Well, let's just see what kind of relationship that the TMAPC and INCOG has with certain developers in Tulsa.  I happen to believe that the more money involved, the cozier they get. But, why should Tulsa be any different than any other city of this size? This is politics and corruption at work on every level in this town.  We, as citizens of this city, should be screaming at the top of our lungs that we are not going to take being ripped of anymore!  Why doesn't Michigan or Wisconsin or Minnesota or Maine or Illinois have street problems like we do?  Why doesn't someone ask one of their street engineers what kind of material that is used to build their streets and highways where they don't have to redo them every year by filling up potholes?  The materials that are used in those states is a little more expensive, but it LASTS. They have weather for months at at a time that would shut down this city in a day!   But you don't hear about their street problems, because they don't have them.  In Tulsa, it's called job security, to use inferior products so you can do the same job next year, at taxpayer expense.  There are but a handful of people that are really running this town.  The rest of us just sit around and complain, and don't vote.  It's going to take citizen action to get the change we need here, and alot of DIFFERENT faces.  I for one am sick of the same old jackasses get away with murder in this town!  Let's get smart and get 'em out!  If I am wrong, then someone please, tell me that I am and why.  I will be glad to hear it.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by debaliz

Well, let's just see what kind of relationship that the TMAPC and INCOG has with certain developers in Tulsa.  I happen to believe that the more money involved, the cozier they get. But, why should Tulsa be any different than any other city of this size? This is politics and corruption at work on every level in this town.  We, as citizens of this city, should be screaming at the top of our lungs that we are not going to take being ripped of anymore!  Why doesn't Michigan or Wisconsin or Minnesota or Maine or Illinois have street problems like we do?  Why doesn't someone ask one of their street engineers what kind of material that is used to build their streets and highways where they don't have to redo them every year by filling up potholes?  The materials that are used in those states is a little more expensive, but it LASTS. They have weather for months at at a time that would shut down this city in a day!   But you don't hear about their street problems, because they don't have them.  In Tulsa, it's called job security, to use inferior products so you can do the same job next year, at taxpayer expense.  There are but a handful of people that are really running this town.  The rest of us just sit around and complain, and don't vote.  It's going to take citizen action to get the change we need here, and alot of DIFFERENT faces.  I for one am sick of the same old jackasses get away with murder in this town!  Let's get smart and get 'em out!  If I am wrong, then someone please, tell me that I am and why.  I will be glad to hear it.

Debbi, You're wrong.  TMAPC is staffed by INCOG.  Both INCOG and the TMAPC use the CITY OF TULSA's 30+ yr. old Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Code to make decisions.  The Planning Commission and its processes and outcomes would not be any different if it were served by a 'City' staff.  As far as I know, developers aren't in bed with INCOG or the TMAPC.  The experienced developers know the game.  They hire good attorneys that have played the game over and over and made up most of the moves.  The attorneys know how to get things done.  They know the relevant issues to push in front of the TMAPC.  There are many citizens that get frustrated with the process but once you familiarize yourself with it (took me a while) it's easier to be involved and informed and actually make a difference.  I'm fairly certain there's no collusion...but if it makes you feel better, keep on with the conspiracy theory.  Contact INCOG, I found them to be pretty helpful when I had questions.  
I also dare you to list one TMAPC member that is in bed with the development community.  All the members that I've had the opportunity to meet are very nice and only want to serve the City the best they can.  I think they would all be offended by your comments.  I'm not saying that I've agreed with thier outcomes all the time.  Sometimes they leave me scratching my head.

As far as streets go, been to Michigan, Ill., and Maine and I'm sorry people there complain just as much as we do about the roads.  Been to Chicago lately, or how about Bloomington, Ill?  Their roads are just as crappy in certain areas.  I know I almost fell into a pot hole the size of Rhode Island in Portland, ME last summer.  We don't have the worst roads in America contrary to popular belief.
And if there is some public works director or foreman utilizing inferior product for purposes of job security that's his bottom when found out.

[PonderInc]

quote:Both INCOG and the TMAPC use the CITY OF TULSA's 30+ yr. old Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Code to make decisions.

This is a compelling reason for people to get involved in the Comprehensive Plan update (PLANiTULSA) and then follow through with demands that the zoning code be updated to support the vision of the citizens (as described in the Comp Plan).  

Learn more: http://www.planitulsa.org/

The first of the community workshops will be Sept 22 & 23, 2008.

TulsaNow will be hosting a public event this summer (tentatively in mid July) with Fregonese and Associates to help folks understand the significance of the Comp Plan, and how they can get involved and have a voice.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

That was ours.  

I heard it was a marathon, but I didn't hear that it was any kind of fiasco.  We hoped to develop the density we feel advantageous to the area but unfortunately that is  not what the city and the people wish, so we are happy to abide by that ruling.

Spoon, you are too sensitive, this is what we do every day, and we usually anticipate whatever response we get.  We usually have our developers and attorney's meet with the neighbors long before the planning meetings so that we know what we need to design for the developer and for the good of the community.  This was no big deal!

The conceptual elevations for the 4 we anticipated were already developed ahead of time.  They do indeed have amazing terraces on the back that view the downtown skyline.  Each floor also offers this view from entertaining areas to bedrooms.  I believe they are about 2,700 sq. ft. each.

Once I get the go-ahead, I will probably be doing some photorealistic renderings of the project.  Hopefully the 4 units will still meet the developers profit model and we will go forward.

I'll post more images as we develop them.



 

Gaspar....

I saw most of the presentation before the Council yesterday evening on this matter.......

However, I missed the vote.

Tell me did they ok 4 or 5?

Did they grant the zoning change?

If you have time...?  I can't wait to see the instant replay. []

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa
[ TMAPC is staffed by INCOG.  Both INCOG and the TMAPC use the CITY OF TULSA's 30+ yr. old Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Code to make decisions.

well, no they only adhere to it when it suits their taskmaster's bidding.  When something in the comp plan goes contrary to what the cronies want to do they back down to calling it a guide (see the Turkey Mt debacle as an example).

all of you who are defending INCOG and TMAPC haven't watched one of their kangaroo courts meetings lately.  They don't even understand their own subdivision rules.

[RecycleMichael]

I watched you, inteller at this last TMAPC meeting. You explained yourself very well.

I was kind of shocked. You look so normal on TV.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I watched you, inteller at this last TMAPC meeting. You explained yourself very well.

I was kind of shocked. You look so normal on TV.

you saw me on TV?  Well that's news to me!

[tshane250]

So, is construction beginning on the Maple Terrace townhomes?  Today I noticed the house that was there is there no more. 

[SXSW]

This is on 14th, in between which streets?

[tshane250]

It's just north of 15th Street on Norfolk Avenue.  The house that was torn down was kind of Spanish style.  It is next to some sort of doctor/dentist office - I cannot remember which.   

See if this works.