Brick and Mortar vs Online Continued

[Conan71]

You and the mrs heading into town?

Give me a little more credit for being modern.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And again, online sales bring down the profit margin of brick and mortar sales.  We have to compete with online and so have to bring our prices down.  You may still be buying 75% or more of your stuff from a brick and mortar, but the brick and mortar isn't making as much off those sales. 

One company we used to get items from I saw their products for sale online going for just a dollar or two more than what we got the for wholesale.  And these were like items that were $50- several hundred dollars.  The online store doesn't have to pay rent or employees etc. all they do is act as a "portal", make a buck or two off the item and tell the wholesaler where to ship the items. Its a tough job to purchase a $50 or more item, have it shipped to my store, unpack it, sit on a shelf taking up space, and then sell it for a dollar or two more. 

I am not even close to the 20% yet - probably about 2 - 3 % - but a lot of the stuff I need for technical projects is tough to find in town - can't find a Toshiba Canvio Premium 3 TB drive anywhere in Tulsa, OKC, Bartlesville, Muskogee, or any of the little towns around (one little example I use for RAIDs).  Amazon is 2 day delivery - free shipping (Amazon Prime).   I don't like it, but use it anyway.  And Radio Shack is done, so tough to find generic electronics parts.  Digi-Key, Mouser, and FAI are 2 days away.

I do go to the store and have them order stuff, and I pick up later, on occasion.  Also buy online with store pickup.   I don't like online at all.  I want to look at it, pick it up, and then take it home immediately with me.  And I don't mind paying extra for that.  Difference to save a few $$ online just isn't worth the hassle of not getting 'immediate gratification'.

I got early exposure to that retail world through Grandparents little dry goods store in Owasso.  Even then it was brutal, because even for the same price - or cheaper - on exactly the same item, people would still go to Tulsa to shop instead of staying 'home' on Main street.  Only lasted a few years.  There is a "retail snobbery" thing where people actually try to impress their friends and neighbors by bragging about how MUCH they paid for something and the 'fancy' store they bought it in...!   Real phenomenon but bizarre to me.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Give me a little more credit for being modern.

Check the barn... I think someone stole it from you...!


https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/0000-BEVERLY-HILLBILLIES-CUSTOM-TRUCK-178575

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I got early exposure to that retail world through Grandparents little dry goods store in Owasso.  Even then it was brutal, because even for the same price - or cheaper - on exactly the same item, people would still go to Tulsa to shop instead of staying 'home' on Main street.  Only lasted a few years.  There is a "retail snobbery" thing where people actually try to impress their friends and neighbors by bragging about how MUCH they paid for something and the 'fancy' store they bought it in...!   Real phenomenon but bizarre to me.

Maybe that's a generational or something that has (fortunately) phased out mostly. I can't think of anyone I know who would brag about buying something unnecessarily expensive. Seems like most people tend to be pretty shy or even a bit ashamed about buying unnecessarily expensive items or even overly ostentatious things. Sure there's still plenty of braggarts, but those people are considered immature and overall most people brag about finding good deals, getting a Ford F150 for only $1k or buying a nice jacket for only $20 or scoring a used part for a few bucks on ebay that was $100+ at the dealer.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I am not even close to the 20% yet - probably about 2 - 3 % - but a lot of the stuff I need for technical projects is tough to find in town - can't find a Toshiba Canvio Premium 3 TB drive anywhere in Tulsa, OKC, Bartlesville, Muskogee, or any of the little towns around (one little example I use for RAIDs).  Amazon is 2 day delivery - free shipping (Amazon Prime).   I don't like it, but use it anyway.  And Radio Shack is done, so tough to find generic electronics parts.  Digi-Key, Mouser, and FAI are 2 days away.

I do go to the store and have them order stuff, and I pick up later, on occasion.  Also buy online with store pickup.   I don't like online at all.  I want to look at it, pick it up, and then take it home immediately with me.  And I don't mind paying extra for that.  Difference to save a few $$ online just isn't worth the hassle of not getting 'immediate gratification'.

Retail stores are very thankful for those like you.    I guess that makes sense if there are still many locked into buying almost exclusively in-store for why online retail remains only around 8-9%, even though there are those like me buying mostly online. The savings of money and time are just too much to pass up for me and the wait time helps assure it is something I need. I'll buy something small at home depot for pick-up just so I don't have to walk in all the way to get it!

I'm guessing as the millennials (who grew up using electronics and computers) get a bit older and gain more purchasing power, online shopping will become much larger and eventually that convenience might actually cost more (which really makes sense). Also, it does seem like a massive "bi-opoloy" of Walmart and Amazon could be bad for the country overall.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Maybe that's a generational or something that has (fortunately) phased out mostly. I can't think of anyone I know who would brag about buying something unnecessarily expensive. Seems like most people tend to be pretty shy or even a bit ashamed about buying unnecessarily expensive items or even overly ostentatious things. Sure there's still plenty of braggarts, but those people are considered immature and overall most people brag about finding good deals, getting a Ford F150 for only $1k or buying a nice jacket for only $20 or scoring a used part for a few bucks on ebay that was $100+ at the dealer.

Look at higher priced stuff - when you get into that rarified strata WAY above where I live, people still brag about their diamonds, expensive sports cars, yachts.... implication being, see how rich I am since I can buy this...!


I am all about getting stuff cheap - why pay $50 for a Lodge cast iron skillet when you can get one at flea market or antique store for $10?  And it's better, cause it has the inside ground smooth instead of right out of the mold rough!

I brag about how cheap my average auto costs are - day in, day out, run well under $75 a month per car - I don't do car payments.  Includes all maintenance, tires, parts, transmissions, whatever comes along.  I drive them til I am just too sick of them to use anymore (hasn't happened yet), or they get wrecked or engine goes out, or find a cheap good replacement.  (I don't do engines anymore, but I know a great transmission guy and it is always worth fixing that.)  And I get hundreds of thousands of miles from them.  Literally.  Have not bought a new car (payment) since 1981 and have always driven good cars that give great service.  But I know what to look for in a car for my requirements.   And they look good mostly - don't really care that much about looks as long as I can get in, start it and drive to either coast and back without thinking about a list of mechanical reasons why not.  Or worrying if it will make it...  Right now, have 2 cars and a truck with way over 200,000 miles (345,000 on truck) that I can choose from and would not be worried about going anywhere.  Might get chilly, cause the truck heater isn't working quite right now, but it would make the trip.  Two cars - heaters are great.

Also have a 'new' car, still in it's break-in period - only has about 150,000 miles on it, but looks like it will go the distance, too.  Will see.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Retail stores are very thankful for those like you.    I guess that makes sense if there are still many locked into buying almost exclusively in-store for why online retail remains only around 8-9%, even though there are those like me buying mostly online. The savings of money and time are just too much to pass up for me and the wait time helps assure it is something I need. I'll buy something small at home depot for pick-up just so I don't have to walk in all the way to get it!

I'm guessing as the millennials (who grew up using electronics and computers) get a bit older and gain more purchasing power, online shopping will become much larger and eventually that convenience might actually cost more (which really makes sense). Also, it does seem like a massive "bi-opoloy" of Walmart and Amazon could be bad for the country overall.

Could be.  I see the kids and grandkids using online regularly, but they still aren't that much ahead of me, so don't know how that will play out.  And since there are only about 25 of them, the sample size might not be big enough.  The great grandkids are still a little too young to see how they will fall out, but there are two, 7 yr olds among them that have iPads and are ALL about getting on the wifi when they come visit.  When they find online shopping, I bet it will be ugly for their parents for some time.  It's gonna be interesting.

Just a side note about millenials, since you mentioned them - are you one of 'them'.??    I keep seeing people 'diss that generation for a wide variety of perceived ills.  Perhaps our family is just not well-to-do enough to indulge in those behaviors, but the 17 or so millenials of mine don't appear to have any of those attributes.  They are for the most part, just like their parents/grandparent's generations in living life.  Decent, hard working, law abiding (mostly) people trying to make life better for them and their kids.  Well, except for one very disturbing trend I have seen - 2 of them are having "anti-vaxer" tendencies which is making me crazy.  They are getting them, but have to be dragged into it sometimes.  Not sure why they are like that, but if they ever saw anyone with polio, diptheria, or whooping cough, I hope they would pull their heads out!    One interesting event two years ago shows that vaccines MUST be renewed from time to time.  One of the daughters - mid 40's - caught whooping cough!!   The vaccine from childhood wore off and she had not gotten a tetanus shot (dpt) in years!   If that disease don't give you a flashback to 1955, and before, childhood diseases, even if you weren't born at that time, then you are stupid.  Not you, but the collective "you"...




Also, it does seem like a massive "bi-opoloy" of Walmart and Amazon could be bad for the country overall.

Like East India Company.   Or '1984'-ish...oh, wait, we are already there...

Big quote from the Charlie Wilson in the 50's...   "what was good for the country was good for General Motors and vice versa."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Retail stores are very thankful for those like you.    I guess that makes sense if there are still many locked into buying almost exclusively in-store for why online retail remains only around 8-9%, even though there are those like me buying mostly online. The savings of money and time are just too much to pass up for me and the wait time helps assure it is something I need. I'll buy something small at home depot for pick-up just so I don't have to walk in all the way to get it!

I'm guessing as the millennials (who grew up using electronics and computers) get a bit older and gain more purchasing power, online shopping will become much larger and eventually that convenience might actually cost more (which really makes sense). Also, it does seem like a massive "bi-opoloy" of Walmart and Amazon could be bad for the country overall.

One more quick little note... as a Hurricane fan - am going to make some general observations that may or may not be true, but you can correct or not as you see fit.  Presuming you graduated from there (me too!...that's gotta sting just a little...)  Professional career.  Doing well enough that you are probably in the top 20% or so nationwide.  May not still be living at parent's, depending where you are on the millenial line.

Not typical of the majority of the country, where 50% still make under $30,000 per year - and 60% under $40,000.  That 50% - very few of them are going online shopping.  And the 50 - 60%, well more of them are, but I bet they don't do a majority of their shopping online.

If you are in that lower 50% group, then you are the exception to buying everything online.

[joiei]

If your not familiar with 1984; TU has it on its theater production schedule for this spring.  https://calendar.utulsa.edu/event/tu_theatre_presents_1984#

[heironymouspasparagus]

If your not familiar with 1984; TU has it on its theater production schedule for this spring.  https://calendar.utulsa.edu/event/tu_theatre_presents_1984#

Huh...perpetual state of war.... now where have I experienced that before...??   Oh, yeah...here.  Since...well, since WWII...

We shoulda listened to Eisenhower.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Could be.  I see the kids and grandkids using online regularly, but they still aren't that much ahead of me, so don't know how that will play out.  And since there are only about 25 of them, the sample size might not be big enough.  The great grandkids are still a little too young to see how they will fall out, but there are two, 7 yr olds among them that have iPads and are ALL about getting on the wifi when they come visit.  When they find online shopping, I bet it will be ugly for their parents for some time.  It's gonna be interesting.

Just a side note about millenials, since you mentioned them - are you one of 'them'.??    I keep seeing people 'diss that generation for a wide variety of perceived ills.  Perhaps our family is just not well-to-do enough to indulge in those behaviors, but the 17 or so millenials of mine don't appear to have any of those attributes.  They are for the most part, just like their parents/grandparent's generations in living life.  Decent, hard working, law abiding (mostly) people trying to make life better for them and their kids.  Well, except for one very disturbing trend I have seen - 2 of them are having "anti-vaxer" tendencies which is making me crazy.  

All generalizations are false.

The people I've made friends with over the years seem to mostly fit that mold of decent, hard-working law abiding. I don't know of any who are anti-vaxers but I stay away from facebook. Most of my family members in that generation have higher-end professional jobs. The family went, as a whole, from migrating to Oklahoma on a covered wagon working hard manual labor up to becoming mostly doctors, engineers, software-professionals, landlords, etc. I know I make more than my parents or their parents and my siblings/cousins have similar stories.

At the same time many millennial struggle just to find a job and get any kind of initial experience thanks to a flood of degree'd students around the same time (even in STEM fields). The job market seems less forgiving and there is a big split between the have's and have-not's.  So there's a big difference between millennials who have careers and have it together and those that just don't, but that seems to be true of about any generation.

The internet allows people to feel comfortable splitting up into a million different factions where they get support for whatever "thing" they're into, no matter how weird or wrong. So you get a lot of "professional" victims/protesters whose job is to hope Bernie gets elected and gives them free money and clears their student debt as they destroy stuff, make the left look bad and feel entitled. The other side can be just as ridiculous or worse (like the loser nazis), but are far fewer by the numbers.  When you spend ~24 years doing everything "right" according to society and then graduate and have no prospects, have to move in with your parents and succumb to a near-minimum wage job where you're looked down upon while seeing many post their fabulous lives on social media daily, I can see where the rage comes from with a lot of these angsty folks.

There's so many large groups of people who will gather to protest some ridiculous thing that's hardly even a real problem, that real issues don't get attention and few things go "the people's" way in government. The elite (Meaning top 0.01%) flourished through Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump. Almost all of the economic gains are going to the elite while the rest of us fight over fewer more-difficult jobs. But I still don't think socialism is the answer. That puts the blame on all the top-50%/20% or even top-1% when the blame lies at the very top of the pyramid.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Also, another thing about millennials is that now women pretty much have to have careers. People talk of "progress", but the choices that young people have has diminished quite a bit. Women used to have the option of being a stay-at-home mothers and could actually raise their own kids and be a part of the local community. Now, few can afford that and raising kids get outsourced to a stranger like most everything else. And even those who can afford to stay at home forego that out of fear of one losing a job or so they can live a more comfortable life as most everything costs a lot more now that the workforce has doubled. Not to mention, fewer are getting married or staying married.

Compared to inflation, the housing market is dis-proportionally high compared to what it was in the 50s-70s and higher education has skyrocketed to levels where it is not worth it in most cases. Baby Boomers love to call millenials "lazy" but if they were given the same set of cards (ridiculously high housing prices and tuition and far more competition for lower-paying jobs), they'd be doing the same thing: bitching about how their parents/grandparents ruined the country with stuff like "The Doctrine of Perpetual War", the state of bad/affordable health care and unsustainable debt levels. It takes far more work to get a job that pays a livable wage these days, even with a college degree. And the worst is yet to come when the federal deficit is so high and there are so many retirees draining resources, social security/medicare/medicaid cannot be paid anymore (first they're raise eligibility age).

http://www.mybudget360.com/cost-of-living-compare-1975-2015-inflation-price-changes-history/

[heironymouspasparagus]

All generalizations are false.

The people I've made friends with over the years seem to mostly fit that mold of decent, hard-working law abiding. I don't know of any who are anti-vaxers but I stay away from facebook. Most of my family members in that generation have higher-end professional jobs. The family went, as a whole, from migrating to Oklahoma on a covered wagon working hard manual labor up to becoming mostly doctors, engineers, software-professionals, landlords, etc. I know I make more than my parents or their parents and my siblings/cousins have similar stories.

At the same time many millennial struggle just to find a job and get any kind of initial experience thanks to a flood of degree'd students around the same time (even in STEM fields). The job market seems less forgiving and there is a big split between the have's and have-not's.  So there's a big difference between millennials who have careers and have it together and those that just don't, but that seems to be true of about any generation.

The internet allows people to feel comfortable splitting up into a million different factions where they get support for whatever "thing" they're into, no matter how weird or wrong. So you get a lot of "professional" victims/protesters whose job is to hope Bernie gets elected and gives them free money and clears their student debt as they destroy stuff, make the left look bad and feel entitled. The other side can be just as ridiculous or worse (like the loser nazis), but are far fewer by the numbers.  When you spend ~24 years doing everything "right" according to society and then graduate and have no prospects, have to move in with your parents and succumb to a near-minimum wage job where you're looked down upon while seeing many post their fabulous lives on social media daily, I can see where the rage comes from with a lot of these angsty folks.

There's so many large groups of people who will gather to protest some ridiculous thing that's hardly even a real problem, that real issues don't get attention and few things go "the people's" way in government. The elite (Meaning top 0.01%) flourished through Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump. Almost all of the economic gains are going to the elite while the rest of us fight over fewer more-difficult jobs. But I still don't think socialism is the answer. That puts the blame on all the top-50%/20% or even top-1% when the blame lies at the very top of the pyramid.

My generalizations are always true!

My 3rd great Grandpa and his brother were in on the first land grab over near Stillwater...they only stayed about 20 years or so, then moved back to KS.  Second wave came back just before and after WWII.  And some of the ancestors - the other half of the family - were here since the early 1800's when Andrew Jackson initiated his genocide and ethnic cleansing policies.

True.

Tough finding a job is a universal constant for many - helps to have a well-developed network, but even that has its limits.  And it gets tougher when you get older.  Your observations have a basis in what goes on in the golden halls of the higher ups.  There has been a very definite concerted effort to keep people "under their thumb" so to speak - as in collusion between companies to keep wages down, coupled with their purchase of the various Congresses nationwide to keep minimum wage down, and most importantly, demonize unions and reduce their effectiveness by turning working people against them.

The hand wringing and gnashing of teeth you see from the mouthpieces about the "shortage" of skilled workers and STEM is an ongoing process that has been in play since way before I got out of school (long time ago).  To get 'imports' - people brought in under the H1-B programs because they "can't find enough workers"...  the actual sentence is truncated - "can't find enough workers at half price wages..."

I saw something earlier about how 1/2 of all young men, 18-34, are living at home.  Some are probably just coasting along.  Most are not.

As for women needing careers - that IS part of the business plan - make the wages untenable to survive with a single worker.  Double the productivity at half the price per each.  And a boost to daycare everywhere!   One of my millennial family was talking a couple days ago about birth control and kids.  She said that if you THINK you might want a child...or another one... consider daycare!   She spent $12,700 last year for 2 of the great grands.  And one is in school much of the time...

Bottom line - the system is rigged.  You are screwed.  Ya gotta find YOUR layer of BS....  One of the best explanations I have ever heard about anything, everything, anywhere....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSijB9-Hw7g




Something another one of my millennial relatives found and turned me onto - Abby is/was an old homeless woman from Wichita.  Found a new niche just knocking around with a couple spoons she got from Goodwill.   Goodwill is all about helping people find jobs, but I bet they never ever dreamed in this direction.  Talk about "outside the box"...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDjpWUrZTf8&index=5&list=RD_nLmM9kcBKs

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I saw something earlier about how 1/2 of all young men, 18-34, are living at home.  Some are probably just coasting along.  Most are not.

I thought there is no way that can be right. Well darn: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/24/479327382/for-first-time-in-130-years-more-young-adults-live-with-parents-than-partners

Tough finding a job is a universal constant for many - helps to have a well-developed network, but even that has its limits.  And it gets tougher when you get older.  Your observations have a basis in what goes on in the golden halls of the higher ups.  There has been a very definite concerted effort to keep people "under their thumb" so to speak - as in collusion between companies to keep wages down, coupled with their purchase of the various Congresses nationwide to keep minimum wage down, and most importantly, demonize unions and reduce their effectiveness by turning working people against them.

The hand wringing and gnashing of teeth you see from the mouthpieces about the "shortage" of skilled workers and STEM is an ongoing process that has been in play since way before I got out of school (long time ago).  To get 'imports' - people brought in under the H1-B programs because they "can't find enough workers"...  the actual sentence is truncated - "can't find enough workers at half price wages..."

...

As for women needing careers - that IS part of the business plan - make the wages untenable to survive with a single worker.  Double the productivity at half the price per each.  And a boost to daycare everywhere!   One of my millennial family was talking a couple days ago about birth control and kids.  She said that if you THINK you might want a child...or another one... consider daycare!   She spent $12,700 last year for 2 of the great grands.  And one is in school much of the time...

Bottom line - the system is rigged.  You are screwed.  Ya gotta find YOUR layer of BS....  One of the best explanations I have ever heard about anything, everything, anywhere....

Depressing but it all has a very simple solution: Just make over $150k/year and it's all fine and dandy. Much like the tip for men on how to not be creepy: 1) be attractive 2) don't be unattractive. So 1) make good money 2) don't be poor

I've noticed quite a few jobs have very very specific requirements that it is hard to imagine more than a few people having. Part of that is to skirt H1-B rules that say you have to publicly post a job and the requirements must not be met by an American citizen. I know a company that wanted to hire a foreigner for low wages but had other qualified candidates so they just added "must have masters degree" (which the foreigner did from some foreign university) and voila! Others eliminated and cheap cheap labor! Pretty messed up they can add more fake requirements after the fact to exclude other candidates.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I thought there is no way that can be right. Well darn: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/24/479327382/for-first-time-in-130-years-more-young-adults-live-with-parents-than-partners


Depressing but it all has a very simple solution: Just make over $150k/year and it's all fine and dandy. Much like the tip for men on how to not be creepy: 1) be attractive 2) don't be unattractive. So 1) make good money 2) don't be poor

I've noticed quite a few jobs have very very specific requirements that it is hard to imagine more than a few people having. Part of that is to skirt H1-B rules that say you have to publicly post a job and the requirements must not be met by an American citizen. I know a company that wanted to hire a foreigner for low wages but had other qualified candidates so they just added "must have masters degree" (which the foreigner did from some foreign university) and voila! Others eliminated and cheap cheap labor! Pretty messed up they can add more fake requirements after the fact to exclude other candidates.

Yeah...sucks big time!   I was out of the house at 19 while in college - had a great job where I could freelance and with the contacts of the main  job, could make about 3 times that as a hobby.   Recently ran across some very old pay stubs - company wrote them by hand on one of those check forms like waitresses used to use - like Ron's Hamburgers does.   Weekly take home - $47.85.  Rented a duplex on south Cinn at 18th where there is entrance ramp now.  Rent and bills paid, $100 a month.  Wonderful house that I may just duplicate when I build a place.


I have been looking around the area and have found several job descriptions that were written as if prefaced, "Dear Heironymous".   Even have had some interviews.  And it has been obvious that two things going on - first, too old.  Second, the perception that I want "too much" money.  Well, I am not about to give it away for free, but am reasonable and open to 'market value'.   And yet, still to old.   So now, I am looking at Goodwill for some spoons....!

Boeing at Tinker even went so far as to put a laundry list of stuff they wanted, MSEE, plus 10 -15 years experience, for what they called, "early career" Engineer. 

Latest one from a big multinational in Bartlesville - one that is not moving out of town - they are "looking for someone who more closely matches..."    Item by item, I hit 90%, including MSEE from TU, but you know what a fly by night operation TU is (lol!)...better match than a lot of family DNA tests....

Their ad is still running...has been for over a year (first applied last June, then again about 4 weeks ago).