"The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency"

[Hoss]

Pretty compelling read by a moderate conservative, David Brooks.

Yeah, yeah, most Oklahoma conservatives will think he's as liberal as the Kennedys, but the whole piece is a very good read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html

[Conan71]

Republican leaders have also proved to be effective negotiators. They have been tough and inflexible and forced the Democrats to come to them. The Democrats have agreed to tie budget cuts to the debt ceiling bill. They have agreed not to raise tax rates. They have agreed to a roughly 3-to-1 rate of spending cuts to revenue increases, an astonishing concession.

Moreover, many important Democrats are open to a truly large budget deal. President Obama has a strong incentive to reach a deal so he can campaign in 2012 as a moderate. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, has talked about supporting a debt reduction measure of $3 trillion or even $4 trillion if the Republicans meet him part way. There are Democrats in the White House and elsewhere who would be willing to accept Medicare cuts if the Republicans would be willing to increase revenues.

If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred billion dollars of revenue increases.

If what Brooks is saying is really what Dems are ready and willing to do than Boehner and McConnell are total blithering idiots and too beholden to the Tea Party faction.  Now, how sincere the Dems are and what the reality is that they've agreed to per a CBO score is entirely different.  Weren't the last round of cuts Republicans were so proud of watered down by about 50% if they even saved us any real dollars?  They need to pull their heads out and realize tax increases have to be a part of returning to fiscal sanity, otherwise they are simply engaging in the same air-headed BAU DC politics which have gotten us into this mess.

Honestly, I think even Ronald Reagan would have seen the value in tax increases at this point.  Conservatism is not defined by no tax increases at all costs.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Its pretty dumb.  They are a one trick pony.  Cut taxes no matter what.  Don't raise taxes, let temporary cuts expire, or compromise on anything.  Even if you get more than you give.  This is the GOP now.  Then throw in the rampant unchecked spending of the Bush admin with the severe hypocrisy of the republican congress on debt. "deficits don't matter" -Cheney .  I seriously just can't stand 99.9% of republicans in congress.  A ton of their (basically religious beliefs) in how the economy works is based on very complex systems with a ton of variables.  They basically think that no matter what if they just lower taxes that everything will be awesome.  If they aren't great, then lower them more.  There is a total breakdown in the use of logic on almost all issues.  Its all based on religious beliefs that evertime you do X then Y happens.  No matter what A-W is.   Everything is black or white, there is no middle ON ANYTHING.  And yes, the democrats have compromised on lots of things.  They already pushed me away once.  If they screw this up I don't know when I could support the party again.

[Conan71]

Its pretty dumb.  They are a one trick pony.  Cut taxes no matter what.  Don't raise taxes, let temporary cuts expire, or compromise on anything.  Even if you get more than you give.  This is the GOP now.  Then throw in the rampant unchecked spending of the Bush admin with the severe hypocrisy of the republican congress on debt. "deficits don't matter" -Cheney .  I seriously just can't stand 99.9% of republicans in congress.  A ton of their (basically religious beliefs) in how the economy works is based on very complex systems with a ton of variables.  They basically think that no matter what if they just lower taxes that everything will be awesome.  If they aren't great, then lower them more.  There is a total breakdown in the use of logic on almost all issues.  Its all based on religious beliefs that evertime you do X then Y happens.  No matter what A-W is.   Everything is black or white, there is no middle ON ANYTHING.  And yes, the democrats have compromised on lots of things.  They already pushed me away once.  If they screw this up I don't know when I could support the party again.

I don't see them as so much entrenched in dogma as they simply view tax increases as punitive, because the message from the left has been tax increases are punitive.  When the Chief Executive is touting tax cuts as "spreading the money around", or "they already make enough" that's received as a punitive message.

As we've uncovered in some other threads, a higher tax environment is considered hostile to business and commerce and it's proven it moves business to safer tax havens.

I simply don't know the right answer to making tax increases palatable to everyone other than raising them by a like percentage on everyone.  I think most wealthier Americans are of the view that if they will get something in return for higher taxes, like less overall net spending and more responsible spending, and they are not the only ones shouldering the increased burden, they might get vocal in supporting tax increases.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Conan,
What???  Reagan raise taxes???

Yes.  He did.  I have talked about that before...here!  He raised them 3 times!  He had the largest tax cut in the history of the world up to that point, the followed that with the largest cumulative tax hikes in the history of the world.  (Which still gave us trillions in debt.)

Which was followed by Daddy Bush hikes.
Which was followed by one Billy Bob hike.

Even Reagan and Daddy Bush understood at LEAST that much about real economics, no matter their propaganda on voodoo economics...that the deficit spending in good times was hurting the economy more than tax hikes during those good times.
Too bad Baby Bush had to burn out all his brain cells on alcohol and cocaine in college...we would be in much better economic shape.  And 4,000+ of our kids might still be alive!

[guido911]

All I need to know about Brooks is in this quote:

In the spring of 2005, New York Times columnist David Brooks arrived at then-Senator Barack Obama's office for a chat. Brooks, a conservative writer who joined the Times in 2003 from The Weekly Standard, had never met Obama before. But, as they chewed over the finer points of Edmund Burke, it didn't take long for the two men to click. "I don't want to sound like I'm bragging," Brooks recently told me, "but usually when I talk to senators, while they may know a policy area better than me, they generally don't know political philosophy better than me. I got the sense he knew both better than me."

That first encounter is still vivid in Brooks's mind. "I remember distinctly an image of--we were sitting on his couches, and I was looking at his pant leg and his perfectly creased pant," Brooks says, "and I'm thinking, a) he's going to be president and b) he'll be a very good president." In the fall of 2006, two days after Obama's The Audacity of Hope hit bookstores, Brooks published a glowing Times column. The headline was "Run, Barack, Run."

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/the-courtship

While I disagree that decency or indecency as to raising taxes is the issue, at some point they are going to be raised. I just want everyone to pay something along with spending cuts to happen first.

[Conan71]

All I need to know about Brooks is in this quote:

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/the-courtship

While I disagree that decency or indecency as to raising taxes is the issue, at some point they are going to be raised. I just want everyone to pay something along with spending cuts to happen first.

Yikes, Brooks got "the tingle" as well?

Would you be okay with simultaneous spending cuts?  And by the way, it's no secret you take some crap around here about income and taxes, but I think it's good to note that your attitude about tax increases is likely mirrored by most everyone in upper tax brackets.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's actually mirrored by me down here in the middle brackets, too.  Cut spending, including defense, at least at the same time if not before tax increases.

And do we really need 8 major military bases on Okinawa alone??  (Answer: No!)