Coburn Has A Point

[Conan71]

Let me see if I understand correctly: they are mulling over taxing IRA, pension, and 401K contributions now?  I can't say I agree with that as it essentially amounts to double taxation unless they allow for tax free withdrawl after a certain age.

Other than that, the standard deduction is high enough these days that most middle income families don't benefit with the mortgage interest deduction.  I don't really see how getting rid of the MID would harm the housing market.  It's only one of many advantages to owning a home.

I would also assume a percentage of tax returns have fraudulent charitable donation claims.  I'd propose that require documentation to be issued at the time of filing and raise the lower limits of what would be deductible on it.  I seriously doubt the tax incentive going away would vastly affect many charitable organizations.

One no-brainer I'm not hearing is stepping up enforcement on tax cheats and deadbeats.  The cost of tax fraud or tax evasion is estimated to be in the range of $400 to $500 billion.

[carltonplace]

Coburn was talking about a rail system from Tulsa to OKC and into Fort Worth and currently Tulsa has  no rail plan, nothing and they are going to build a costly new bridge for something that does not exist- I'm sure they could of  milked  a few more years out of the current bridge till they have a rail plan, or something to go with. That's alot of money being spent. Coburn brought up good points and he is against wasting the money. It's just my opinion that they could of re-surfaced the old bridge and fixed any problems and it would of been fine. That current bridge was built in the 1970's. It also seems like constructing that new county justice center for $54 million dollars is a big waste when they can use a un-used school for only $8-$10 Million dollars. Spend, spend & spend!  

Coburn said Tulsa doesn't have a plan? That's disingenuous of him since he knows we have several plans most recently the fast forward plan and planitulsa. Recent polling shows that Tulsans recognize the need for better mass transit and embrace the idea of rail as a component of a transit plan.

If this is about wasting money then you would certainly agree that the status quo of building wider and wider highways to accomodate each individual citizen to pay for and drive their own car (and to find and drill for oil in ever more remote areas (the artic), and then providing a parking spot for each of those people at their desitnation is much more lavish and wasteful then getting all of those people from point a to point b in a single transport module.

[sauerkraut]

IMO that bridge was not in bad shape at all and the last 3 support collums still standing before they knock them down  look  good, yes- I'm no expert but it's not rocket science to see when something is crumbling and cracking and that does not seem to be the case with those supports. I think they could of milked a few more years out  of that bridge.. They are not going to make that new bridge any wider  from the drawings of it I seen they tore down the 3 lane bridge only to rebuild it as a  new 3-lane bridge when they might as well make it wider for the future traffic but that would make too much sense. The bridge is only 40 years old that's not bad. I get the feeling that some of Tulsa's roads are turning into another Interstate 75 like in Cincinatti, Ohio... It's claimed that I-75 thru metro Cincinatti, Ohio has been under perm. road const. since the day that Interstate first opened in the 1960's, they widen it, then tear it up and fix a retainer wall, then tear that down, then put it back up, add a lane, move a lane, change a exit, move the exit back where it was... Meanwhile traffic is choked up in knots..  I hope that's not what is going to happen in Tulsa.

[swake]

IMO that bridge was not in bad shape at all and the last 3 support collums still standing before they knock them down  look  good, yes- I'm no expert but it's not rocket science to see when something is crumbling and cracking and that does not seem to be the case with those supports. I think they could of milked a few more years out  of that bridge.. They are not going to make that new bridge any wider  from the drawings of it I seen they tore down the 3 lane bridge only to rebuild it as a  new 3-lane bridge when they might as well make it wider for the future traffic but that would make too much sense. The bridge is only 40 years old that's not bad. I get the feeling that some of Tulsa's roads are turning into another Interstate 75 like in Cincinatti, Ohio... It's claimed that I-75 thru metro Cincinatti, Ohio has been under perm. road const. since the day that Interstate first opened in the 1960's, they widen it, then tear it up and fix a retainer wall, then tear that down, then put it back up, add a lane, move a lane, change a exit, move the exit back where it was... Meanwhile traffic is choked up in knots..  I hope that's not what is going to happen in Tulsa.

Here again are the real ratings of the bridge from real engineers:

Reality is that the bridges are 43 years old and carry a lower structural deficiency rating than the bridge in MN that fell.

The bridge that is being replaced carried an overall rating of 32.1 out of 100 (structurally deficient) with a substructure (the posts and supports) rating of 4 out of 10. Which means "POOR CONDITION - advanced corrosion, deterioration, cracking or chipping. Also significant erosion of concrete bridge piers."

The other 244 bridge has a rating of 36.8 with substructure rating of 4 as well.

But I'm guess you won't answer my post, probably too cowardly and/or dumb to deal with facts that are in direct conflict with what you have been told to think.

[Townsend]

If there are no responses to a sauerkraut does a sauerkraut actually exist?

We could run a test.

[Hoss]

IMO that bridge was not in bad shape at all and the last 3 support collums still standing before they knock them down  look  good, yes- I'm no expert but it's not rocket science to see when something is crumbling and cracking and that does not seem to be the case with those supports. I think they could of milked a few more years out  of that bridge.. They are not going to make that new bridge any wider  from the drawings of it I seen they tore down the 3 lane bridge only to rebuild it as a  new 3-lane bridge when they might as well make it wider for the future traffic but that would make too much sense. The bridge is only 40 years old that's not bad. I get the feeling that some of Tulsa's roads are turning into another Interstate 75 like in Cincinatti, Ohio... It's claimed that I-75 thru metro Cincinatti, Ohio has been under perm. road const. since the day that Interstate first opened in the 1960's, they widen it, then tear it up and fix a retainer wall, then tear that down, then put it back up, add a lane, move a lane, change a exit, move the exit back where it was... Meanwhile traffic is choked up in knots..  I hope that's not what is going to happen in Tulsa.

You don't widen a bridge only to reduce it down to the main 3 lanes.  Are you seriously that dense?  Oh, I know what it is.  You likely haven't driven on I-244 since, well, probably since there was none and you had to take Southwest Blvd to get to Sapulpa.

[swake]

You don't widen a bridge only to reduce it down to the main 3 lanes.  Are you seriously that dense?  Oh, I know what it is.  You likely haven't driven on I-244 since, well, probably since there was none and you had to take Southwest Blvd to get to Sapulpa.

The bridge probably did look pretty good in 1976