Obama will shut down Guantanamo

[we vs us]

Was watching Obama's interview on 60 Minutes last night and he said this:  

"I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo, and I will follow through on that," the Democrat, who takes office on January 20, told 60 Minutes.

"I have said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm going to make sure that we don't torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world," Mr Obama added.

Frankly, I can't wait for him to shut Guantanamo down.  It's high time for that place to be taken apart brick by brick and the ground sown with salt.  Let's also hope he flips the off switch on rendition and all the black prison sites around the world we've been running. Git er done, Obama, git er done.

[inteller]

hahahahaha.....you forget one thing:

plausible denial.


The tortures will still continue, Obama just won't know about it.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

"I have said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm going to make sure that we don't torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world," Mr Obama added.

It would have had more of an impact if he had admitted that the government does employ torture but that will C H A N G E.
Re-defining something doesnt make it any less of what it is.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

"I have said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm going to make sure that we don't torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world," Mr Obama added.

It would have had more of an impact if he had admitted that the government does employ torture but that will C H A N G E.
Re-defining something doesnt make it any less of what it is.

he would have to know about it before he could admit to it.  That smoke you smell are the shredders at the white house working over time.

[Hometown]

I have heard stories about the government participating in torture all of my adult life.  The recent difference was openly admitting the practice (while refusing to call it what it was).  Any citizen with a brain that saw those very early photos of detainees strapped to boards and hopping around with blindfolds had to know there was a problem.  If Bush has taught me anything it is that it would take us about a week to slip into complete Fascism.  When the going gets tough most of our leaders become frightened followers.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

hahahahaha.....you forget one thing:

plausible denial.


The tortures will still continue, Obama just won't know about it.

Ditto.

Shutting down Guantanamo only means moving everyone there to a different place.  We end up with the same facility housing the same prisoners (oops, sorry, enemy combatants) guarded by the same guards only in a different location.  Same place, different name.  WASTE OF MONEY.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by inteller

hahahahaha.....you forget one thing:

plausible denial.


The tortures will still continue, Obama just won't know about it.

Ditto.

Shutting down Guantanamo only means moving everyone there to a different place.  We end up with the same facility housing the same prisoners (oops, sorry, enemy combatants) guarded by the same guards only in a different location.  Same place, different name.  WASTE OF MONEY.

Getting closer. . . Lets analyze the situation.

We can't introduce them into a domestic system because of the threat they pose to domestic prisoners by their mere presence, also the threat that domestic prisoners pose to them.

We can't release them.  Some have murdered hundreds of people and planned the murder of thousands.  We have already proven that upon release they return to kill again like Maulvi Abdul Ghaffar or Abdullah Salim Ali al-Ajmi.

We have to have a secluded location that poses no threat to a population in the case of escape or attack, a location where we can maintain military control with civilian supervision.  

I wonder where such a place could be?

Perhaps we could find a secluded island or somewhere separated by miles on uninhabitable terrain where we can place secondary security measures without risk to civilians?

Or we could just let them go and hope for the best.  I'm sure they have learned their lesson and are ready to embrace CHANGE.




[]

[Gaspar]

4 years from now GITMO will still be in operation.  If not GITMO than another detention facility far away from american soil.

Even if the execution was flawed, the strategy remains correct.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by inteller

hahahahaha.....you forget one thing:

plausible denial.


The tortures will still continue, Obama just won't know about it.

Ditto.

Shutting down Guantanamo only means moving everyone there to a different place.  We end up with the same facility housing the same prisoners (oops, sorry, enemy combatants) guarded by the same guards only in a different location.  Same place, different name.  WASTE OF MONEY.

I guess you're one of those glass-half-empty types.  I think the hope is that "shutting down guantanamo" means that he'll make an effort to process the prisoners in some form or fashion, either by having them charged and tried or released.  Not just moved to endlessly floating prison ships in international waters or the equivalent.

[Hawkins]

We didn't establish a torture facility after the first World Trade Center attacks. We simply arrested those involved and let the FBI, and the justice system handle the matter.

I absolutely hate 9/11 because I view it as a complete victory for the muslim extremists, who, thanks to the Bush administration, destroyed the U.S. Constitution and our position as World Leader with one act of terrorism.

There was never a need for a department of Homeland Security, or a detention center, or the Iraqi invasion, or the Patriot Acts... the list goes on and on.

Perhaps Obama can clean some of this mess up, and establish a little bit of the United States that we once knew before 9/11.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins

We didn't establish a torture facility after the first World Trade Center attacks. ......

That you know of.

[Gaspar]

Stranger by the minute. . .

Not only will we keep GITMO open, but we will likely do a $200 million dollar renovation.

Currently, there are 166 detainees at Guantanamo. Of those, 103 are involved in a hunger strike, with 30 restrained and fed through a tube.
Now, that seems to be against Article 3 of the Geneva Convention barring cruel, humiliating and degrading treatment.  Of course most intelligent people understand that the United States never signed the Geneva Convention, however, we are bound by the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 that prohibits the "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment" of detainees.

So I guess the question would be, can it be considered cruel or inhuman to restrain and force-feed a detainee?
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/699889/medical-management-of-detainees-on-hunger-strike.pdf
Unlike the protocol used by the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, this one says nothing about deferring to the "sound medical judgment by the physician responsible for medical care." And though it's based on the Bush administration's 2005 force-feeding protocol (which the ACLU secured in heavily censored form through the Freedom of Information Act), it is, if anything, harsher.

Under the Bush protocol, the camp's chief medical officer was the only one authorized to declare someone a hunger striker. The Obama version transfers that authority to the base commander. And whereas the Bush protocol called for "every effort ... to allow detainees to remain autonomous" while refusing food, the Obama protocol never uses that word.

The new document does include detailed instructions for masking and shackling a hunger striker, and for denying him any say in the concentration of his feeding fluid or the rate at which it is pumped down his nose. If the detainee begs to speak with a doctor, the nurse is to answer, "I will write a note in your chart for the doctor." And if he vomits at the end of the ordeal, he must be forced back into the feeding chair.  http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/21/obama-defends-his-guantanamo-crackdown/

I wonder how long can we consider ourselves justified in binding a person and keeping him/her alive through a tube simply because we don't want or release or prosecute them?
The UN is calling it TORTURE http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=13278&LangID=E

I miss the old days of GITMO when they were bitching about not enough basketballs and prayer rugs, or when they were excited to get their new gazillion dollar soccer field, because the old one was just nasty.  Sounds like that place has really gone downhill.

[Conan71]

Let's see where could we cram a mere $200 mil to get that funded? Oh, I know, how about the Oklahoma relief aid bill! We probably won't need in the first place since FEMA would should have enough cash on hand without special appropriations.  But then again, why miss an opportunity to create a $20 billion sausage for $600 million or so in actual relief aid?

[Gaspar]

Let's see where could we cram a mere $200 mil to get that funded? Oh, I know, how about the Oklahoma relief aid bill! We probably won't need in the first place since FEMA would should have enough cash on hand without special appropriations.  But then again, why miss an opportunity to create a $20 billion sausage for $600 million or so in actual relief aid?

Great idea!

Ask Coburn.

[patric]

We didn't establish a torture facility after the first World Trade Center attacks. We simply arrested those involved and let the FBI, and the justice system handle the matter.

I absolutely hate 9/11 because I view it as a complete victory for the muslim extremists, who, thanks to the Bush administration, destroyed the U.S. Constitution and our position as World Leader with one act of terrorism.

There was never a need for a department of Homeland Security, or a detention center, or the Iraqi invasion, or the Patriot Acts... the list goes on and on.

Perhaps Obama can clean some of this mess up, and establish a little bit of the United States that we once knew before 9/11.

The House -- those people we elected to be our voice in Washington -- has a different message:


WASHINGTON -- A worsening hunger strike and a fresh plea by President Barack Obama to close the Guantanamo Bay prison fell on deaf ears in Congress Friday, as the House of Representatives voted to keep the increasingly infamous jail open.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/guantanamo-bay-close_n_3438347.html