Repeal the "Stand Your Ground" Laws

[Hoss]

I'm sure he was.  There is simply no telling how it's all going to play out due to different understandings of the law.  I'd sure as hell hate to wind up like Kenneth Gumm. 

We discussed that case specifically.  The shove evidently was construed as lethal force trying to defend non-lethal force.

[TeeDub]

Joe Horn made it through fine.  He warned the dispatcher he was going outside to confront two burglars who broke in to his neighbor's house, then managed to shoot both, kill one, and walks free.

The operator said, "You're going to get yourself shot." But Mr. Horn replied, "You want to make a bet? I'm going to kill them."
Moments later he said, "Well here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Then again, that was Texas.

On June 30, 2008 a Harris County grand jury cleared Mr. Horn by issuing a no-bill after two weeks of testimony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLtKCC7z0yc

[Conan71]

Joe Horn made it through fine.  He warned the dispatcher he was going outside to confront two burglars who broke in to his neighbor's house, then managed to shoot both, kill one, and walks free.

The operator said, "You're going to get yourself shot." But Mr. Horn replied, "You want to make a bet? I'm going to kill them."
Moments later he said, "Well here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Then again, that was Texas.

On June 30, 2008 a Harris County grand jury cleared Mr. Horn by issuing a no-bill after two weeks of testimony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLtKCC7z0yc

Fellow confronted a burglar at his neighbor's in Tulsa a year or two back over behind the Best Buy off Skelly Drive and ended up dead.  Stay in your locked house and call the cops.  If they try to come in your house, then act.

[Hoss]

Fellow confronted a burglar at his neighbor's in Tulsa a year or two back over behind the Best Buy off Skelly Drive and ended up dead.  Stay in your locked house and call the cops.  If they try to come in your house, then act.

Castle Doctrine material right there (your suggestion, that is).  And I was told it extends to your vehicle as well.  Which kind of goes at odds to what happened to Mr. Gumm, if I'm assessing it correctly.

[Conan71]

Castle Doctrine material right there (your suggestion, that is).  And I was told it extends to your vehicle as well.  Which kind of goes at odds to what happened to Mr. Gumm, if I'm assessing it correctly.

IIRC, Gumm got backed around his car once or twice after he pulled his gun with the other guy screaming he was going to "end him".  Gumm was 67 at the time and this other guy was in his early 40's, drunk, and I think the tox report was positive for meth, so he was nuttier than squirrel turds.  I believe he had a reasonable fear of great bodily harm, if not death.

Gumm probably should have simply stayed in his car with the windows rolled up and called 911.  If the guy then proceeded to break his window or try to plow into his car, he could reasonably have a better claim of self-defense under SYG.  There are enough people around that parking lot who could have helped diffuse the situation.

I've also been told that Gumm, like Jerome Erslund, said too much to the investigating officers thinking he had a clear-cut case of SYG.  Gumm also ignored advice of attorneys the NRA provided him.  He didn't do any time but he cannot legally own a gun.  Last I saw him, he was walking the river trails with a very large walking stick.

Lesson in both cases is that adrenaline will make you do things by reaction and without much thought.  First call after 911 needs to be to your attorney.

[custosnox]

Castle Doctrine material right there (your suggestion, that is).  And I was told it extends to your vehicle as well.  Which kind of goes at odds to what happened to Mr. Gumm, if I'm assessing it correctly.

My understanding of the Castle Doctrine as it applies to your vehicle is it applies as long as your in it, and not in the drivers seat. 

[TeeDub]

Fellow confronted a burglar at his neighbor's in Tulsa a year or two back over behind the Best Buy off Skelly Drive and ended up dead.  Stay in your locked house and call the cops.  If they try to come in your house, then act.

That is why you don't confront people without a gun and the willingness to use it.    Guns aren't to threaten or intimidate people, they are strictly for defense.   (That is why firing a warning shot often negates any sort of self defense claim.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

That is why you don't confront people without a gun and the willingness to use it.    Guns aren't to threaten or intimidate people, they are strictly for defense.   (That is why firing a warning shot often negates any sort of self defense claim.)

Warning shot is the Hollywood BS fantasy stupid thing to do.  It has no place in any real world scenario EVER!

[Hoss]

Warning shot is the Hollywood BS fantasy stupid thing to do.  It has no place in any real world scenario EVER!

Plus, it's criminal.  Well, if you do it within city limits it is.  And could also be considered brandishing.

[patric]

Since there was already a topic about "stand your ground" defense, here's an interesting twist.

A Florida plainclothesman who had intended to use the defense to justify shooting a fleeing man in the back called 911 so that he could be recorded yelling misleading commands at the man, who lay dead or dying in a ditch.
What he didn't know is that the man he killed had also been on the phone with a tow truck dispatcher, and the entire fatal encounter was recorded.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-officer-using-stand-your-ground-defense-trial-killing-black-n976066

Missing from the recording were any introductions Raja claims he made to Jones saying he was a police officer.
Based on the timing of the roadside call and Raja's 911 call, prosecutors have determined that Jones would have been fatally wounded and on the ground motionless for more than 30 seconds before Raja yelled at Jones to drop the gun.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190216/corey-jones-police-shooting-trial-what-really-happened-in-dead-of-night-off-i-95  https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/editorials/fl-op-edit-police-officer-raja-guilty-20190307-story.html
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2019/03/07/verdict-reached-in-former-palm-beach-gardens-police-officer-shooting-death-trial/

Florida officer sentenced to 25 years in shooting death of stranded motorist
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/25/us/florida-corey-jones-shooting-sentence/index.html

[patric]

George Zimmerman is suing the family of the teenager he shot nearly eight years ago, seeking more than $100 million from Trayvon Martin's parents, their attorney and others. Zimmerman claims he was the victim of a conspiracy.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/04/784846004/george-zimmerman-sues-trayvon-martins-family-for-more-than-100-million

[swake]

George Zimmerman is suing the family of the teenager he shot nearly eight years ago, seeking more than $100 million from Trayvon Martin's parents, their attorney and others. Zimmerman claims he was the victim of a conspiracy.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/04/784846004/george-zimmerman-sues-trayvon-martins-family-for-more-than-100-million

Sadly there is evil in the world. Zimmerman is an example of that.

[heironymouspasparagus]

George Zimmerman is suing the family of the teenager he shot nearly eight years ago, seeking more than $100 million from Trayvon Martin's parents, their attorney and others. Zimmerman claims he was the victim of a conspiracy.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/04/784846004/george-zimmerman-sues-trayvon-martins-family-for-more-than-100-million

Competing hard with Trump to be the most disgusting person in the US.