Ugly in the making

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I have spent very little time in BA, I have no real reason to go there.  It seems like a decent suburb, but at best it is Anytown USA.  Tulsa surely has many faults and is not the most unique place in the world, but BA grew rich and grew quick in the last 20 years - it could have learned from Tulsa and others and made itself something special.

As it stands, its the same as every other middle class suburb in the United States that "grew up" in the 1990's.  Enjoy Owasso and Jenks take over as the new middle class suburbs with their new strip malls and houses as you suffer the same fate you bestowed on Tulsa.

No offense, just as I see it.

I completely disagree that they are the same as any other middle class suburb. I challenge you to find any suburb in the Dallas area for instance that is as spread out and as poorly laid out with where they place their residential, commercial and industrial areas, how they zone for low and high density development, its placements to the road, how the buildings appear, amount of greenery in parking lots, the number of parking spaces per the size of business, signage placement, etc. Most suburbs do all of that stuff much better, "except for around Tulsa lol".

I remember when they put the NSU out in the middle of nowhere and also hearing about how they were making plans to improve their downtown. I thought "helloooooo, put the college near downtown".  Go to the intersection around 101st and 145th. Its so spread out, the intersection is really wide, then there is a wide space between the road and the parking lots, then the parking lots are huuuge. The whole area looks desolate and uninviting. And its an area thats always been struggling. There also isnt enough high density housing zoned for the area to support the commercial.

No matter how bad you think Tulsas development is. Drive around BA and notice how spread out the buildings are, how far things are set back from the street. Tulsa, even in its worst "suburban" areas are more dense and closely packed. And Tulsa is no prime example of good growth. You can tell when you are in one city versus the other simply by how it looks and feels.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Real sweet how they named the East/West streets after cities, but didn't alphabetize them.

I would demonstrate, but maps.google.com clearly shows that you have no idea what you are talking about...   Do you ever read or try to validate what you are typing?

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


CF, as usual, you summarized my points well. They made the same mistakes in development as the city they so despised.

I don't think BA hates Tulsa.   Why would it, it provides the jobs that allow us to live in a sparse, suburban lifestyle.  

I do occasionally miss the church and a store in every neighborhood...   But then again, that doesn't exist in Tulsa anymore either.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Real sweet how they named the East/West streets after cities, but didn't alphabetize them.

I would demonstrate, but maps.google.com clearly shows that you have no idea what you are talking about...   Do you ever read or try to validate what you are typing?

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


CF, as usual, you summarized my points well. They made the same mistakes in development as the city they so despised.

I don't think BA hates Tulsa.   Why would it, it provides the jobs that allow us to live in a sparse, suburban lifestyle.  

I do occasionally miss the church and a store in every neighborhood...   But then again, that doesn't exist in Tulsa anymore either.

I knew if I trolled long enough I would find a BA believer. I was hoping for a more erudite, hospitable one.

I worked there every day for 8 years. The enmity towards Tulsa was palpable among the business community. I called on all the businesses at the time, many owned by local politicians. They were quite comfortable with despising what Tulsa was. In their minds all crime emanated from Tulsa, and it was considered ungodly by the Rhema crowd. The Tulsa World was castigated as an outsider trying to exploit their growth. BA leaders practically ignored any development efforts north of the expressway for years because of outside ownership and fear of blunting the march southward. Apparently Bass Pro marked a change in that attitude along with the realization that the south side of the city would soon reach the river. Much of that criticizm came from the local newspaper, and shortsighted businessmen, not residents. For God's sake man! BA didn't allow mixed drinks in their restaurants till well into the eighties. Do they still feel that way? I can't say but unless you know you should shut up or validate what you type.

Oh, yeah, my brother bought his first home there and as I said my parents recently sold their home in BA. Just exactly what makes you so well informed? Access to Google? Cool dude...there's my house...

Does Jasper (Wyoming?) alphabetically come after Washington and Lincoln? Maybe you know something I don't.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Does Jasper (Wyoming?) alphabetically come after Washington and Lincoln? Maybe you know something I don't.

Um, Zoom a touch more.   There are (surprisingly enough) streets BETWEEN the miles.  Each block is alphabetical..  

As for the general harsh nature of your employment in BA, sorry you had it so rough.   Tell you what, you don't generalize BA on our Rhema freaks and I won't generalize about Tulsa based on Richard Roberts.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Does Jasper (Wyoming?) alphabetically come after Washington and Lincoln? Maybe you know something I don't.

Um, Zoom a touch more.   There are (surprisingly enough) streets BETWEEN the miles.  Each block is alphabetical..  

As for the general harsh nature of your employment in BA, sorry you had it so rough.   Tell you what, you don't generalize BA on our Rhema freaks and I won't generalize about Tulsa based on Richard Roberts.

If you can get through life without generalizing then you'll achieve saint status.  Good luck.  Each of the neighborhoods has only one entrance/exit along the main drags meaning you make big jumps in the alphabet. It bottlenecks traffic within the hood and gives the illusion of protection. A poor man's gated community I guess. So if you're not a local it can be confusing. But you're technically correct so your ego is intact.

I don't appreciate the incivility of your remarks. Whenever I see someone make such remarks as "you don't know what you're talking about" and "do you validate what you type" etc. I surmise they spend more time with online discussions than face to face for personal safety reasons. And why defensive about Rhema freaks? I made no ill references to that school. You did.

My discussion points are lost on you. It isn't my personal experience, which was by the way quite satisfying and educational, but the failure of planning as noted by Artist and the hubris their leaders displayed. They thought it was all about them and that the ride would last forever. I just happened to have seen it in its infancy stages and after returning many years later could see the outcome of those mistakes.

Development in Owasso seems headed the same direction. Jenks doesn't. Probably a function of proximity to dense wealth.