The Rabid

[rwarn17588]

I'm OK with the percentage voting of delegates.

But I agree ... superdelegates I could do without.

If a nominee-in-waiting truly goes apesh*t before the convention, there's nothing preventing the pledged delegates from changing their minds if the situation is grave enough.

[iplaw]

Yeah.  It's just weird to me.  I think the party will rethink the whole process after this year, especially if Clinton has anything to do with it for 2012.

Honestly, I think we should have one friggin super tuesday, that's it.  Every state votes on the same day.  The current draw-out system is not only annoying, but makes the presidential cycle unnecessarily long.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

quote:Originally posted by Conan71



I'm really curious what the outcome on the Democrat Party nominee would have been if every state had closed primaries and a winner-take-all format on delegates.  That would pretty much end it at Super Tuesday right there and both parties can rally behind one candidate instead of the gorey spectacle Hillarity has made out of the primaries since then.

That's a pointless exercise. All the Dem candidates knew that the rules were in winning delegates.

We're dealing with reality, not fantasy.

Even if it had been winner-take-all, then you can bet the strategies of all the candidates would have been radically changed to reflect that.

And, yes, ending or scaling back the Iraq war would indeed free up a lot of money. There is, after all, some financial prudence in cutting spending on an operation that is producing meager results.

Hardly pointless, unless you simply didn't understand what I was getting at.

I would have rather seen this settled three months ago instead of the circus it's become.  I'm partial to a closed primary system partly because I've grown up with it in Oklahoma and partly because I really don't see the point in allowing Ind and Rep to vote in a Dem primary and vice versa.  I think the parties should keep the nomination process to themselves.

The "super-delegate" system is just ripe for corruption.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71



Hardly pointless, unless you simply didn't understand what I was getting at.

I would have rather seen this settled three months ago instead of the circus it's become.  I'm partial to a closed primary system partly because I've grown up with it in Oklahoma and partly because I really don't see the point in allowing Ind and Rep to vote in a Dem primary and vice versa.  I think the parties should keep the nomination process to themselves.

The "super-delegate" system is just ripe for corruption.

I agree with knocking the superdelegate system. But even then, the superdelegates have been flocking to Obama by a 2-to-1 or 3-to-1 ratio in recent weeks. Superdelegates do read the newspapers, see the money-raising stats and see the voting totals. They are reflecting the will of the voters.

But, again, the rules were out there for everyone to see before the primaries started. If the party wants to change it bad enough, it can before 2012.

And the Republicans held several open primaries, too. A lot of hardcore wingers blame Democrats and independents voting for McCain in New Hampshire for McCain's big surge. I don't buy it; I simply think a decisive number of Republican voters wanted a more moderate candidate.

Remember, if the GOP field hadn't become so weak so quickly, that primary season could have gone well into May, also. When the GOP picture was so unsettled in January, many were predicting this. Few counted on McCain consolidating his position so quickly. I'm not sure I credit McCain so much as attrition by his more-flawed rivals.

[FOTD]

Sounds a few here are a bit disappointed she did not do well yesterday despite the fact they also can't stand her. Interesting.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Speaking of the primary process, if the Democrats actually had a system that resembled the Republican's, they would have had a nominee months ago, but like with everything else, they overcomplicated what should be a simple exercise.

The Democratic primary system and their addition of "superdelegates" is a perfect microcosm of how they deal with EVERYTHING, just add more complexity, oversight and regulation and everything will all be better!  If they only raised taxes on their superdelegates it would be indistinguishable.

Actually the Democrat primary system has been very carefully constructed to control the nomination process, and make people think that they have a vote, unfortunately they did not foresee a powerful force like the Clintons waging a PR war against the process.  

Howard Dean still has 23 super-delegates to name, giving him some control over the selection.  He is leaning for Obama, Hillary will win West Virgina, Kentucky and Puerto Rico, but Obama has Oregon, North Dakota and Montana sewed up.  She can win at most 10 additional delegates leaving her behind by 110 (including supers).  

At this point, even if the sky opens up and God commands the party to count Florida and Michigan, she will only net an additional 47.

So. . . She is out of the race, but she must continue to divide.  Her next move when it is all said and done will be to make Obama so politically crippled that he cannot pose any challenge to McCain.  She will then make a plea on the convention floor.  It's unheard of, but it's what she plans to do none the less.  She has nothing to lose at this point.

[RecycleMichael]

I can't believe the level of rhetoric aimed at Hillary. She is just running for President. The primary season is not over. Obama does not have the number of delegates he needs to win.

She is not "destroying" or "ruining" the party. Anything she has said about Obama was going to be said about him by the republicans. She didn't uncover the Preacher, the Chicago mobster or the creepy 60s radical. If anything, the coverage of these things in the spring gives Obama the time to get past them if he is the candidate in the fall.

Hillary is running a good campaign against all odds. The media and the republicans have been attacking her for years. Her opponent is wonderfully spoke and has brought millions of new people to the process. Yet, she still won in Indiana yesterday, depite being outspent two to one by him. She will win big next week in West Virginia.

Hillary has overcome tremendous odds to get to this point. She should be respected for that, instead she is blamed and called names because she won't quit soon enough for the Obama people.  

Maybe I am just naive. I think the republicans cannot win in November, partly because their candidate is far from their base. I also think he is too old for many to support and his past scandal with the Keating five is very damaging.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Hillary is running a good campaign against all odds

She was a 4:1 favorite to win the nomination going into the thing.  She was a 2:1 favorite to win in Indiana and favored in the majority of  polls (Obama max +2, Clinton max + 16 in Indiana polls, odds are off of trading sites with actually currency, basically Vegas lines).  She didn't even cover the spread in Indiana (Clinton +3.5). How is that "against all odds?"   She is losing in spite of the odds.

And why does it matter how much he spent?  She outspent him in Iowa, yet he won.  The reason he has more to spend, in spite of Clinton tapping her personal fortune, is that he has a higher level of support.  She held on to the very end in Indiana in spite of his spending, but still fought to a statistical tie.

and yes, she will "win big" in West Virginia.  But it won't be enough to change the pledged delegates nor the popular vote even if she got 100%.    So really that's like running through first base in spite of your line drive being caught by the 2nd basemen.

quote:Hillary has overcome tremendous odds to get to this point.

Yes she has.  The odds said she would walk away with it, she over came them to be in her current position.
- - -

Not being mean, just wondering when the time comes to stop trying to spin it.  For the sake of discussion, please outline for me the scenario that sees Hillary winning the nomination.  Barring an act of the gods (who, everyone knows, love Republicans).

[Conan71]

Ah yes, West Virginia, home of that ageless old prankster, Robert Byrd:



He looks smashing in white.

[iplaw]

quote:Barring an act of the gods (who, everyone knows, love Republicans).

Didn't the superdelegates sign a contract with a Force Maejure provision in it before they were selected?  Acts of god aren't an excuse anymore.