Tulsan takes stand, gets beat down

[waterboy]

Artist, the police are obligated to protect and preserve the rights of ALL the citizens. Not just the ones who are courteous, gracious and righteous. It doesnt' matter if he had displayed a bad attitude, their interest is in the crime or prevention thereof.

Tim, what makes you think that the police were able to determine that your grifter contractor issued a false statement? They have to be non judicial in assembling the facts or make reasonable assumptions based on the circumstances and the stories presented. Unless they have direct observation or witness statements it was just your allegation versus his.

I saw the story on KOTV and didn't think much about it. To me it was one way of many to handle that situation. It was a counter to the  emphasis on "make my day" laws, the rare stories of armed home invasions and the movement towards vigilantism as an answer to perceived rampant crime. Nothing wrong with calling the cops for what he saw happening but damned if I would have been sauntering past that home later by myself without some sort of defense plan.

Crime is actually decreasing in Tulsa according to a World story last week.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Yeah, well, there you go, damn right I gotta beef.  You just do not like me because I think that phoney Tuscan style looks like @$$. []

Dunno, Mister Jaynes, what a Tulsan is to do.  The story does not say.  The moral of the story was supposed to be 'doing the right thing' but I am stymied about how that is arrived at.  Dude calls the constabulary and gets his face broken.  He seems resigned to the situation and ain't bugging out so why should I care?

The Tuscan Style, I assume, are those lovely roof tilings one sees on Italian and Spanish homes and throughout the Mediterranean? I think I'd by far like the original real deal for my roof, and not a new-world reinterpretation of it, but hey, that's just my tastes. Then again, my condo in Biloxi (which I've yet to flip) was my little castle, and I made sure the interior reflected that concept. Then again, I didn't have any say over the roof.

But I digress.

I would call the police, sure, but if they couldn't help me, I certainly wouldn't take that refusal to deal with this (nor my beat down itself) laying down. Of course, I do reserve the right to defend myself, and I'd call the law just as a way of covering myself a little more. And if I got arrested, well, so be it. That's what the courts are for, to make a ruckus, lol.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


Perception

We have all run into people who seem to continually have "bad luck" and have bad things happen to them. Far more so than seems likely. But when we get to know them a bit we see that they have general attitudes, thoughts, ways of seeing and reacting to the world which put them in bad life situations. Or they even see the same situation as being negative or a person offending them, when another person would not see it that way. Or the negative attitude of a person just generating negative feedback from those around them. etc. After a while when we have seen many of these kinds of people we notice they have similar qualities. You also notice that even though it may seem like a small thing, over time those negative qualities add up in a persons life and they end up in jobs they dont like, around not so good people, in bad neighborhoods, unable to tell the difference between good and bad people and thus getting in more bad situations, etc. Actually creating in reality what was once mostly in their mind. Though they dont deserve every bad thing that happens to them,,, they certainly deserve quite a few. It becomes hard to untangle the tangled web of that persons life and determine which is more of which.

The Matrix has you, Neo!

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Not sure what popo is, but I assume from the post you mean the police? How old are you anyway? 3? If I were the police and I read that I would jeer at you and not help you either. Sounds to me like you have an attitude problem and probably deserve all the crap and hassle you get from people. You have sure made me not like you. I hope thats the response your wanting, cause thats what your getting. And I bet its probably not just from me.

Seriously, though, Artist, kidding aside, have you ever been the victim of violent crime, or ever found the potential for such in your immediate sphere of existence? If not, I genuinely envy you. Me, I've had a few near-run ins with various bold individuals on the street, and I'm not ashamed to say thatonly when I showed that I was willing to meet it head-on with an equal display of force did the threat subside.

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

My advice is for Tulsans to cower inside their houses after dark, let the thugs take over the neighborhoods, and to never call you-know-who over stupid stuff.

Tim, i'm on your side on so much of this issue, but that just is not an option to me. We can either live as free and happy as the Good Lord intended, or we can be afraid 24/7. Well, like i said, I'm nobody's victim.

[rwarn17588]

A bit of background for Mr. Jaynes ...

Tim has shown on this board to throw nonsensical tantrums when things don't go his way, to the point where moderators had to step in.

So, based on that, it doesn't surprise me that the cops gave him the cold shoulder. There's no sense in confusing the men and women in blue during their investigations by acting borderline criminal yourself.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

My opinion is the police are there to uphold the law, and not decide whether or not they like someone before they take action. In short, do their jobs and quit acting like life is a popularity contest.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

A bit of background for Mr. Jaynes ...

Tim has shown on this board to throw nonsensical tantrums when things don't go his way, to the point where moderators had to step in.

So, based on that, it doesn't surprise me that the cops gave him the cold shoulder. There's no sense in confusing the men and women in blue during their investigations by acting borderline criminal yourself.

That is bizarre, dude.  What a jerk you are! do not know what I ever did to you but you are so far off on everything you just said I wonder about your grip on reality. If you cannot win an argument just flail about looking for attention?   G'head and link the supposed instances and we can go from there, otherwise be revealed as mean-sprited jerk.

It is great to know that freaks like my assailant can beat someone, lie to the cops, and then basically stalk me in my own neighborhood.  But I really cannot blame the cops, not because of their laziness and stupidity of the two, but because they know that de Judge would say 'pancakes is this case doing here?' and the DA would say 'There is no evidence either way.' and all the cops would have done is waste their time.  I can not imagine a more futile experience than going through he motions for no good reason, so who can blame them for sneering at a citizen's complaint, leaning against his cruiser with his arms folded, while the assailant is laughing in the crybaby 'victims' face?

You are right, fellahs.  I deserved it.  I deserved getting punched for asking some dude to leave my property.  I deserved the cops disdain.  And the grifter - who has a $12K civil judgment against him in Cayuggah (sp?) County, Ohio - when he takes advantage of some old person or assaults someone else, deserves to get away with it.

Tulsa-fan-in-Texas, you have seen it from two posters here: cops base their field judgments on  how they feel and not the evidence. Tulsans who are victimized asked for it.  Dare to speak up and get blamed for being victimized.

They are right, I thought I said so.  The first mistake is even opening the door to any stranger for any reason.  The second is to call the cops unless you just want them to fill out a report or unless you have conclusive evidence.  Otherwise it is just a waste of time and will only lead to bad things.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Tim, what makes you think that the police were able to determine that your grifter contractor issued a false statement? They have to be non judicial in assembling the facts or make reasonable assumptions based on the circumstances and the stories presented. Unless they have direct observation or witness statements it was just your allegation versus his.

One officer said that the grifter said I struck him and that he had witnesses.  You are right, without conclusive evidence it is a waste of time even calling.  So if I struck him first why was I not arrested? If I swung back in self-defense, why was he not detained? In this type of he said/she said situation the so-called victim is screwed.

His 'witnesses' were a block away, and unless they had pulled up to my house, witnessed my assaulting this guy, and then drove all the way around the block to where their work was (two houses down on Rockford) they had no way of physically seeing the event.  The officers made no attempt to verify how valid his statement was.  They just went with it.  The guy clearly had more experience than I did, and about 120 lbs more on his frame (I am scrawny, this guy is pretty beefy).

Cannot blame the cops for their inaction.  How futile and what a waste of time it is to babysit big people.  Look, just because I was upset and scared at the way the assailant looked after he hit me - he smiled wickedly like he enjoyed making me scared - does not mean that I can prove what happened. When the cops come, despite how upset you are, it is very very important to not show emotion or the cops will think you are crazy and jeer you.

[cannon_fodder]

I'm trying to read past the whining and just figure out what happened, from what I can tell:

1) Tim hired a fly-by-night contractor to do something.

2) Tim was not happy with the job &/or there was a disagreement on the terms.

3) The contractor demanded payment, Tim did not want to pay.

4) Per Tim, a disagreement happened on his property which ended in the contractor hitting him.  

5) The police were called.  Who did not take the incident seriously enough to really DO anything.  The contractors story and Tim's story did not line up.
- - -

Is that it?  Because from an outsiders perspective it sounds frustrating, but I have no real indication that your version is any more correct that the contractors (I did the work, Tim didn't pay, then he got rough when I tried to collect).

If you are really concerned about stalking and/or violence get a restraining order against him.  Tell him in a certified letter why you aren't paying and suggest he initiate suit if he intents to collect (expect a lien to be filed).  Or write a check for what you think the services were worth with "in full accord and satisfaction" in the memo line and inform him your dealings with him are done.

Of all the possible steps you could take to resolve this situation, whining about it on the internet, insulting the police, and arguing with posters seems to be among the least effective.

Best of luck Tim, but this discussion isn't really helping you.

[tim huntzinger]

Close enough, except the contractor told my wife he would give 'a discount' if we put a sign in the yard for 'a little while.' After 11 days I removed the sign, just to have another one pop up a few days later.  It goes, and next day the dude shows up saying we had agreed to 50% for a month of the sign.  When the guy refuses to leave I go get his tag and on the way back he pops me and then runs away.

You are right, this discussion was pointless, just like calling the cops in that situation was pointless. Just like a pointless story about taking a stand for one's neighborhood was pointless.  Like getting a concealed weapon to protect oneself against drunk meth-heads and expecting justice is pointless. It is all pointless.

[cannon_fodder]

So you wouldn't leave a sign in your yard for another 2 weeks - that was the basis for the fight?

Clearly the guy should not have hit you, but you can't blame the cops for being a little peeved at the call.  2 grown men fighting over a contractors yard sign.  Seems a little silly.

And no, everything isn't pointless. But what did you expect to accomplish with this thread - in the manner that you framed it?

[tim huntzinger]

You are right, 110% right.  A guy says my wife is a liar, refuses to leave my property, hits me, lies to the cops, stalks me in my neighborhood.  Case closed.  I am an idiot for opening the door which put me in that situation and then for calling the cops when I should have known they could not help.

Yer right about this thread.  A TV station puts out some puff piece congratulating another rube for getting his face broken.  Nothing to discuss.

A hero geezer uses deadly force and the same man who let a psychotic killer free charges said geezer with manslaughter.  Move on, nothing more to see.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger



You are right, this discussion was pointless, just like calling the cops in that situation was pointless.

You said it, not me.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Clearly the guy should not have hit you, but you can't blame the cops for being a little peeved at the call.  2 grown men fighting over a contractors yard sign.  Seems a little silly.

I have to say this statement befuddles me CF. I don't know if you've ever been the victim of violence, but two men fighting is not really a fight when one is much larger than the other. Another thing, if I tell anyone to get off my property (for whatever reason), they have NO BUSINESS hitting me and I have ever right for protection from the police. Them getting a little "miffed" because they have to do their job is unbelievable. I don't live in Tulsa, but if the attitude of the citizens and police regarding this type of violence is what I'm gathering from the people that seem to be ganging up on Tim just because he's not the most popular kid on the block I don't think I want to move there.

I'd be whining too if some guy comes onto my property and pops me and the police think there's no big deal. I'd be whining even more if I come onto this forum and get the responses I've heard thus far.

In Fort Worth, or where I live if you call the Police, you get results and there is no bias. In short, they are professionals. And my neighbors wouldn't say that I'm whining if those professionals behaved unprofessionally.

[waterboy]

Keep in mind, Tulsa Fan, that this forum only carries Tim's account and Tim's perception of the police.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

I guess what disturbs me is some of the comments such as fights between two grown men over <insert activity here> is a "little silly."

Frankly, if someone is sticking a sign in my yard and I tell them to pull it up and they not only refuse but bonk me up side the head and someone (especially a cop) thinks that is "silly" is disturbing to me.

If someone comes into my yard, hits me in the head, I'm going to hit them back, and things will escalate into even more violence.

I understand what you are saying, but the replies of "it's not a big deal" disturb me. If Tim is lying that's one thing, but to say that it is "silly" and doesn't deserve police response when one man hits another on HIS property disturbs me.

[tim huntzinger]

No doubt there are two sides to every story.  What part of me hitting a much bigger guy and then calling the police makes sense, though?  No history of my doing anything like it, a model frigging citizen.

I think the cops decided against acting bc it is the classic he said/she said scenario, and they just did not have an iron clad case.  There is no excuse for the one cop to have treated me like I was in the wrong, to the point of sneering at me and saying 'It is stupid to have to settle something between two grown men.'

I just thought there was a confluence between KOTV's story, the Gumm affair, and what happened to me.  This is the first time I have mentioned it on the forum even though it happened in January.  I am so embarassed I have not even told some of my friends or family.  I know the guy has been targeting my neighborhood and my wife has seen him drive by since then.  I do not know if the guy is trying to provoke me or if I am in danger of vandalism.  Sucks.  Do not open the door.