Tulsa World posts full city streets plan

[Conan71]

Reading the story in the paper this morning, I think Martinson was way off-base.

The five widening projects identified in south Tulsa ARE needed.  No I don't live out that way anymore and don't drive that way all that often but used to suffer through it.  There is massive gridlock due to short-sighted infrastructure development which is 20 years behind private development in the area.

I will agree that parts of Lewis and Yale in mid-town are dangerously narrow and need to be widened as well as the surface being replaced.  ODOT is every bit as guilty as the city in neglecting our roads.  My route to work which consists of getting on the BA at 15th, through the IDL to HWY 75 S and exiting at W. 41st St. is hideous.  I noticed the ramp from 75N onto the BA is starting to get holes in it.  Immediately following that, the expansion joints between the east-bound south lane and adjacent lane is glopped together with heaps of asphalt.

I do agree there are side streets on the plan which don't need to be there.  OKC needs to do their part with maintaining the highways through Tulsa, but many of our main arterial streets are shot.  That's my observation from driving my truck and riding my motorcycle and bicycle over them.

[Wrinkle]

Seems all have agreed the proposal doesn't work and have put off to November any reconciliation.

And, we thought the Third Penny was safe for awhile, at least through Mayor Taylor's term.

When including Third Penny funds as an extension, it's quite probable all those who've been feeding on it all these years would want their fluff in the streets deal.

People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan. It should get at least fair consideration.

Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

[cks511]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

++1  Let's see... the channels.....the river.....an out of touch streets package...each package gets more out of control.  I'm a big Hewgley fan.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

I know. It just happens to be a coincidence that our street needs total $2 billion. I mean, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?? Let's just continue to throw a nickel at a dollar's worth of problems like the past 40 years and hope they magically go away.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle
People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan.

That is the fifth or sixth time you have mentioned Hewgley in one of your posts.

Can you explain your connection, or should we just assume you are the same person?

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle
People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan.

That is the fifth or sixth time you have mentioned Hewgley in one of your posts.

Can you explain your connection, or should we just assume you are the same person?

No. They are not one in the same.

Must agree Hewgley understands this issue better than anyone else.

The newspaper the last two daze makes me wonder if they are thinking they own us all.... I mean the TAC editorial asking for the Zeeman's firing was way reactionary. And this mornings castigation of Martinson completely out there.
They run this town down at TulsaWorld. So they know...

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

I know. It just happens to be a coincidence that our street needs total $2 billion. I mean, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?? Let's just continue to throw a nickel at a dollar's worth of problems like the past 40 years and hope they magically go away.

We tried it your way with Education, see how that helped.

Throwing more money doesn't make the 40-year problem go away. Fix the problem.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle
People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan.

That is the fifth or sixth time you have mentioned Hewgley in one of your posts.

Can you explain your connection, or should we just assume you are the same person?

Assume what you want. Does it really matter from where a good plan arrives?

My 'connection' is paying attention.
And, my suggestion was for others to do the same.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Seems all have agreed the proposal doesn't work and have put off to November any reconciliation.

And, we thought the Third Penny was safe for awhile, at least through Mayor Taylor's term.

When including Third Penny funds as an extension, it's quite probable all those who've been feeding on it all these years would want their fluff in the streets deal.

People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan. It should get at least fair consideration.

Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

Amigo, for someone that is not familiar with Mister Hewgley, how do I see what he has to say??

I still believe that fixing all the streets over a period of years may be just a way of subsidizing a new arm of City Government.

A "streets dept"......

Why not make this about transportation...

Include streets but keep options open for other forms of development.. ie rail....streetcars...etc.

This massive amount of money is sure to go down in flames.....

We have a very short sighted Government if in this day and age they feel streets are the panacea to lock this amount of money and time into..

Prioritize the work.... Fix the worst... keep the options open.

Don't try to be everyones everything...

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Seems all have agreed the proposal doesn't work and have put off to November any reconciliation.

And, we thought the Third Penny was safe for awhile, at least through Mayor Taylor's term.

When including Third Penny funds as an extension, it's quite probable all those who've been feeding on it all these years would want their fluff in the streets deal.

People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan. It should get at least fair consideration.

Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

Amigo, for someone that is not familiar with Mister Hewgley, how do I see what he has to say??

I still believe that fixing all the streets over a period of years may be just a way of subsidizing a new arm of City Government.

A "streets dept"......

Why not make this about transportation...

Include streets but keep options open for other forms of development.. ie rail....streetcars...etc.

This massive amount of money is sure to go down in flames.....

We have a very short sighted Government if in this day and age they feel streets are the panacea to lock this amount of money and time into..

Prioritize the work.... Fix the worst... keep the options open.

Don't try to be everyones everything...

You forgot one Rico-

"Quit tapping the third penny for anthing but roads"

[]

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Seems all have agreed the proposal doesn't work and have put off to November any reconciliation.

And, we thought the Third Penny was safe for awhile, at least through Mayor Taylor's term.

When including Third Penny funds as an extension, it's quite probable all those who've been feeding on it all these years would want their fluff in the streets deal.

People need to start listening to James Hewgley III. He's the only one presenting a real streets program, and the only one with a logical plan. It should get at least fair consideration.

Any politician who comes up with a $2 Billion plan isn't living in the same place as the rest of us. They also will not likely be around when we START paying for it, much less when we finish.

Amigo, for someone that is not familiar with Mister Hewgley, how do I see what he has to say??

I still believe that fixing all the streets over a period of years may be just a way of subsidizing a new arm of City Government.

A "streets dept"......

Why not make this about transportation...

Include streets but keep options open for other forms of development.. ie rail....streetcars...etc.

This massive amount of money is sure to go down in flames.....

We have a very short sighted Government if in this day and age they feel streets are the panacea to lock this amount of money and time into..

Prioritize the work.... Fix the worst... keep the options open.

Don't try to be everyones everything...

So you can get it in his own words:

On June 17, 2008 there's this audio link:

Mr. Hewgley's first appearance was on  12/06/2007 and the audio file was HERE but is now missing.

Mr. Medlock, if you're checking in here, this 12/06/2007 audio file from the "Chris and in the morning show" is no longer available on KFAQ's website. Could you or someone else repost it, or make it otherwise available? This is an important historical interview.

Here's the Batesline.com entry for that event:

[Wrinkle]

Thought I'd mention (again) that the current proposal generates no new paving money until at least 2010, but begins collection of new Ad Valorem Jan 1, 2009 (which can be used ONLY for CAPITAL projects, i.e., reconstruction and expansion, not paving). That means paving ('repairs') cannot begin for 2-3 more years, if then. Money for paving doesn't really kick in until one of the other taxes expire. The first would be 4-to-fix in 2011 followed by the 3rd Penny in 2012. So, unless we forward bond those future revenues at a greater expense of long term interest rates, no paving can occur until then.

Wasn't the objective here to fix the streets we have?

Mr. Hewgley's plan would've started paving by now, in 2008, if the plan had been voted upon earlier this year, and continued for 10 years.

Basically, it can still begin within a few weeks, perhaps a couple of months of any vote which authorizes that plan.

This plan would also leave the Third Penny on its' normal course to expire in 2012 and available for new road reconstructions and expansions needed then, as it currently does and with a projects listing.

Voters could authorize an amount equal to what is now the 4-to-fix county sales tax to fund Mr. Hewgley's plan and NOT require any new Ad Valorem tax at all.

It also leaves voters the option of renewing Vision2025 sales tax amounts for other new projects later, like a transportation master plan which includes light rail, bus route improvements, bicycle amenities, trails or whatever we deem needed at that time.

It's highly anticipated that none of the existing city leaders would likely be around in 2017 in their current capacity. So, why are we letting them decide everything now for those conditions later?

That flat doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

[Wrinkle]

Just another thought, but shouldn't our 41st Street Bridge be in the next 3rd Penny?

IAC, it should've also shown up in Mr. Martinson's plan, but didn't.

[FOTD]

One can't trust what comes out of Public Diswerks nor TulsaWhirled.

Therefore, some of us might just have to join the campaign against raising city fees and taxes to pay for all the past neglect and incompetence....

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


Just another thought, but shouldn't our 41st Street Bridge be in the next 3rd Penny?

IAC, it should've also shown up in Mr. Martinson's plan, but didn't.

Personally, I think $70 or so million on a bridge connecting East and Southwest Tulsa would be money well spent, but, it's not in any official plans right now, is it?