120 new Brady District Lofts + retail

[RecycleMichael]

I am not smart enough to argue on this one...yet.

I have only heard one side.

Audi alteram parten...to hear the other party.

[cannon_fodder]

I applaud the effort RM, and look forward to hearing the other side.  But the City has a large mouthpiece they can use to talk.  They used it to make it clear that they will get that property with no qualifiers, exceptions, or other softening concessions.

A citizen should not have to pester the city to get the whole story.

Sorry for spamming this thread, I'm frustrated.

[tshane250]

quote: I don't understand how these actions could be construed as constructive. Unless they are serving another purpo$e we don't know about, shutting out a developer makes no sense. Perhaps it is again a situation where lack of transparency is destroying public confidence in our government.

You hit the nail on the head there.  This is exactly, I mean exactly what is wrong with politics in this city.  Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's too top down.  The process needs to be flipped.  I think PlaniTulsa is a step in the right direction.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Looks like the complaint department is Peter Boylan....aka TV Guide ex insider barred from SEC participation of any kind for life.

You might want to tell BOK that, he's on the board there.

And that's a mystery unto itself.....

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I applaud the effort RM, and look forward to hearing the other side.  But the City has a large mouthpiece they can use to talk.  They used it to make it clear that they will get that property with no qualifiers, exceptions, or other softening concessions.

A citizen should not have to pester the city to get the whole story.

Sorry for spamming this thread, I'm frustrated.

Head to lunch and get some of your favs.....then turn wicked. It will terminate the frustration. Trust the devil. It's that or a big fattie.[]

[Double A]

Kwueen Kathy chose the nobility in her Kourt over her lowly loyal subjects outside of the walls of her Krystal Kastle and her majesty is willing to use force to take land as a gift to King Kaiser?  No good deed goes unpunished in Kwueen Kathy's Kingdom.

[carltonplace]

On the surface this feels like cronyism, but I have to agree with RM that I want to hear both sides of the story before I decide that something unethical is at play.

This is exactly the type of behaviour that frustrates downtown development over and over again. It always seems like the TDA is somehow involved in blocking RFD on these city parcels while at the same time proffessing that they are looking after the city's interest. How is keeping all of these city owned parcels fallow helping the city in any way?

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

A bird in the hand, thats just the kind of bird you want, should be in Tulsas interest.

Does anyone know if it's too late to incorporate a multi-use stadium which would include international women's soccer?  Could the City Council establish another trust and another assessment district downtown in order to bring soccer to Greenwood?  

Just wondering....

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Basically, to me it looks like a land grab. That spot is now a for sure money maker, and the donors want to have it... So they are going to take it.

From the Tulsa World, June 25, 2008:

"The overall ballpark project, however, extends beyond the stadium, capturing redevelopment opportunities south to the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railroad tracks and a good portion of the city blocks toward Detroit Avenue.

Taylor would not confirm if the city has contracted land options on any of those sites for redevelopment adjacent to the stadium. But she did say that investors have expressed an interest in being a part of the project."

That article had a map showing the inclusion of the proposed 120 Lofts site.  This issue was discussed at a public hearing three weeks ago.  The City Council approved the stadium project.  Remember?

[TheArtist]

I get what your saying Michael, but how they are playing it with these developers is wrong. Let them know if they can be a part of it, after all they have been reaching out in all kinds of ways, but they are being ignored.  The city could offer some hint that they want to help these people out, another parcel nearby, just say they do indeed want them to be part of the plan but that the exact details of how they want everything to work together is still being worked out. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for the patience and offer to help with other parts of the plan as well, we will do everything we can to make sure everyone comes out ahead in this deal and not lose.

But thats not how they are doing it at all. They are just shoving them off to the side and basically saying screw you, we dont care, go away.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Basically, to me it looks like a land grab. That spot is now a for sure money maker, and the donors want to have it... So they are going to take it.

From the Tulsa World, June 25, 2008:

"The overall ballpark project, however, extends beyond the stadium, capturing redevelopment opportunities south to the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railroad tracks and a good portion of the city blocks toward Detroit Avenue.

Taylor would not confirm if the city has contracted land options on any of those sites for redevelopment adjacent to the stadium. But she did say that investors have expressed an interest in being a part of the project."

That article had a map showing the inclusion of the proposed 120 Lofts site.  This issue was discussed at a public hearing three weeks ago.  The City Council approved the stadium project.  Remember?

Whats your point?  You saying the city council approved then, the scuttling of the 120 lofts project. That they knew the city was going to derail their efforts and not work with them?

[sgrizzle]

This story is 100% meant to rile people up. It's largely speculation and rumor everyone on this forum has known for weeks.

Yes, the city and the private investors know that to capitalize they need to make sure they don't end up with a kum-n-go across the street. Yes, the elite like having a lot of influence over their investments. Yes, it sucks for people like Will but there is nothing saying this is some Mayor/City Council/Colonel Sanders conspiracy.

I think Will's developemt should move to Towerview. TDA owes him as much.

[we vs us]

It's easy to see it from the 120 Loft developers side, but consider some of the things that might be influencing the city to keep this close to their vest:  

-- the project is being sold not simply as a stadium but as a stadium+environs; 120 Lofts may simply not fit into the +environs part of the project as it has been pitched.

-- succesfully guaranteeing some or all of the private funding for the project may actually pivot on the +environs part, and who is allowed to build there.

-- the project isn't greenlit, and so there can't be much public back and forth yet.

Does this excuse poor treatment of good faith efforts?  Absolutely not.  But I don't think it's farfetched to see why the city might, regrettably, have to play things both vaguely and aggressively to get this done.

CAVEAT:  I spent just enough time in Chicago to think that occasionally Richie Daley-style city politics is just kinda what's needed to get things done.  And this is very Richie Daley.

[TheArtist]

Well all I can say is they had better come through with some MAJOR development there, otherwise people are going to be fed up.  They had also better come through and help these developers out somehow to make up for the hassle and hurt they have caused these people.

Also the towerview is not a fair exchange. Their development wont work there as well. That spot would work best having a larger "Heavenly Hospitality" type development. There isnt enough other stuff around there to connect to or have synergies with.  It would be much better to be a large "self-supporting" type development that can work with the arena.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Basically, to me it looks like a land grab. That spot is now a for sure money maker, and the donors want to have it... So they are going to take it.

From the Tulsa World, June 25, 2008:

"The overall ballpark project, however, extends beyond the stadium, capturing redevelopment opportunities south to the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railroad tracks and a good portion of the city blocks toward Detroit Avenue.

Taylor would not confirm if the city has contracted land options on any of those sites for redevelopment adjacent to the stadium. But she did say that investors have expressed an interest in being a part of the project."

That article had a map showing the inclusion of the proposed 120 Lofts site.  This issue was discussed at a public hearing three weeks ago.  The City Council approved the stadium project.  Remember?

Whats your point?  You saying the city council approved then, the scuttling of the 120 lofts project. That they knew the city was going to derail their efforts and not work with them?

I'm not sure if the City Council knew that the TDA intended to ignore the 120 Lofts developers or not.  Three of the nine Councilors wanted more time to study the details of the stadium project, but they were denied that opportunity by the other six.

Bill Martinson asked some good questions.  The responses to his questions 9 and 12 indicated that the Tulsa Stadium Trust would be seeking control of adjacent "necessary" property.  The 120 Lofts project site has been shown in Tulsa World articles since June 25th within the boundaries of the stadium project.  Seems to me that indicates the Council's approval of the stadium project, which includes some of the surrounding real estate, which includes the 120 Lofts site.

I agree with you.  This appears to be a land grab.  You have made some wonderfully keen observations, IMO.

Good, insightful post.