IOWA FLOODING

[mdunn]

This is a post from a friend at another forum,which I agree totally!

Just a personal observation...as I watched the news coverage of the massive flooding in the Midwest with over 100 blocks of the city of Cedar Rapids, Iowa under water, levees breaking, and the attention now turned downstream for when this massive amount of water hits the Mississippi, what amazed me is not what we saw, but what we didn't see...

1. We don't see looting.
2. We don't see street violence.
3. We don't see people sitting on their rooftops waiting for the government to come and save them.
4. We don't see people waiting on the government to do anything.
5. We don't see Hollywood organizing benefits to raise money for people to rebuild.
6. We don't see people blaming President Bush.
7. We don't see people ignoring evacuation orders.
8. We don't see people blaming a government conspiracy to blow up the levees as the reason some have not held.
9. We don't see the US Senators or the Governor of Iowa crying on TV.
10. We don't see the Mayors of any of these cities complaining about the lack of state or federal response.
11. We don't see or hear reports of the police going around confiscating personal firearms so only the criminal will be armed.
12. We don't see gangs of people going around and randomly shooting at the rescue workers.
13. You don't see some leaders in this country blaming the bad behavior of the Iowa flood victims on "society" (of course there is no wide spread reports of lawlessness to require excuses).

[we vs us]

So why do you think there're so many differences?

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

So why do you think there're so many differences?

I have my opinions as to the reason for the differences.However stating them would bring out the bad in me!

[RecycleMichael]

There is nothing worth stealing in Iowa?

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

There is nothing worth stealing in Iowa?

What do you mean?Lots of tractors!

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by mdunn

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

So why do you think there're so many differences?

I have my opinions as to the reason for the differences.However stating them would bring out the bad in me!

I figured as much.

[cannon_fodder]

My father's office building in downtown Waterloo was flooded out.  His company gave the employees 3 days off with pay IF they spent at least 8 hours of those days sand bagging in the community or otherwise volunteering (cooking at shelters, etc.).  If they didn't want to help, they could take vacation days or go work at a different office (5 offices - Waterloo, Cedar Falls, and Cedar Rapids all forced to close).

I thought that was clever.
- - -

Cedar Rapids is a decent sized city.  About 250K in the metro area.  There are plenty of minorities, poor, and all sorts of groups of people associated with the Katrina disaster.  There are plenty of shops to be looted and things to steel.  But most people were too busy on the sand bag lines to bother trying.

To me, it illustrates a mentality of "lets try to fix this" vs. "why isn't someone fixing this."   The circumstances are certainly different, but not as different as the reaction IMHO.  Not sure why, but the biggest difference is apperently planning by the cities (this was a 500 year flood, New Orleans should plan on a major hurricane once a decade) and the reaction of the citizens.

[rwarn17588]

Of course, it's quite a bit different from New Orleans, in the fact that Iowa wasn't dealing with 170 mph winds immediately before the levees broke. Nobody's gonna fill sandbags in those conditions unless they have a death wish.

Most flooding in the Midwest, you've got a few days to prepare because the water rises slowly. With hurricanes, that can all happen overnight, especially with the storm surge. And any preparations you have beforehand can be rendered moot by the winds, tornadoes and everything else.

Iowa isn't dealing with a massive knockdown of the electrical grid, either. Nor trees and houses being thrown all over the place to the point where it blocks roads.

Hurricanes are completely different animals than just localized flooding. Take all the difficulties of flooding and triple them.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Of course, it's quite a bit different from New Orleans, in the fact that Iowa wasn't dealing with 170 mph winds immediately before the levees broke. Nobody's gonna fill sandbags in those conditions unless they have a death wish.

Most flooding in the Midwest, you've got a few days to prepare because the water rises slowly. With hurricanes, that can all happen overnight, especially with the storm surge. And any preparations you have beforehand can be rendered moot by the winds, tornadoes and everything else.

Iowa isn't dealing with a massive knockdown of the electrical grid, either. Nor trees and houses being thrown all over the place to the point where it blocks roads.

Hurricanes are completely different animals than just localized flooding. Take all the difficulties of flooding and triple them.

It didn't help either that N.O. already had one of the higher crime rates in the country before Katrina, take out any form of organized law enforcement in a city like that and anarchy will result.  

Nor did it help that the city and state were grossly unprepared for such a catastrophe, then state and local leaders chose to blame the Feds for everything.  That fomented a certain attitude as well.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Of course, it's quite a bit different from New Orleans, in the fact that Iowa wasn't dealing with 170 mph winds immediately before the levees broke. Nobody's gonna fill sandbags in those conditions unless they have a death wish.

Most flooding in the Midwest, you've got a few days to prepare because the water rises slowly. With hurricanes, that can all happen overnight, especially with the storm surge. And any preparations you have beforehand can be rendered moot by the winds, tornadoes and everything else.

Iowa isn't dealing with a massive knockdown of the electrical grid, either. Nor trees and houses being thrown all over the place to the point where it blocks roads.

Hurricanes are completely different animals than just localized flooding. Take all the difficulties of flooding and triple them.

It didn't help either that N.O. already had one of the higher crime rates in the country before Katrina, take out any form of organized law enforcement in a city like that and anarchy will result.  

Nor did it help that the city and state were grossly unprepared for such a catastrophe, then state and local leaders chose to blame the Feds for everything.  That fomented a certain attitude as well.

There's little doubt that the feds SHOULD have shouldered some of the blame. When you have a disaster of such enormous proportions, you don't dilly-dally three days in sending aid into the city. Even the biggest apologists for the feds admitted their organization was a fiasco.

Dealing with such widespread misery and damage are beyond the scope of city and state governments; that's why federal help is so crucial.

[Conan71]

I don't think I was clear in indicating the Feds have their share of blame in the aftermath, and as well, the USACE should have stayed on top of the levee situation years before Katrina hit.  

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

With hurricanes, that can all happen overnight, especially with the storm surge.
. . .
Iowa isn't dealing with a massive knockdown of the electrical grid, either. Nor trees and houses being thrown all over the place to the point where it blocks roads.

Hurricanes are completely different animals than just localized flooding. Take all the difficulties of flooding and triple them.

1) New Orleans had infinite notice that they lived below sea level and a Hurricane WOULD hit eventually.  They had about a weeks notice that a Hurricane was approaching and might hit.  They had about 3 days notice that it probably would hit.  They had about a day and a half notice that it would hit for sure, and probably would wipe the city off the map.

Then a Hurricane hit and flooded the city.  What counts as warning here?  Clearly the rational response would not have been to sandbag the levies, but SOME form of preparation would have been prudent.  Like... maybe get above sea level, stock provisions, things like that.

2) Power plants are often (if not usually) along the rivers.  The power plant in Iowa City and one in Cedar Rapids were knocked out.  Water treatment facilities as well as waste water plants are still down.  This was not a small event that flooded a few homes and moved on.

3) It was not localized.  From Des Moines, to Waterloo, to Cedar Rapids, to Iowa City there were evacuations, flooding, and massive damage.  Several Interstate Highways were cut.  Scores of bridges were and still are closed.
- - -

I'm not arguing that the two are synonymous, but certainly analogous.  A natural disaster which had some forewarning and ended up being as bad as it could.  In both instances large groups of the population lost everything they owned and commerce was destroyed.

In one... people looted, rampaged, and blamed the government for destroying their homes.  In the other, people did all they could to stop it, failed, and are already moving on.  For whatever reason, the people in Iowa responded much more admirably to a crisis situation than New Orleans did.  And in my opinion, the response is a matter of attitude.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Of course, it's quite a bit different from New Orleans, in the fact that Iowa wasn't dealing with 170 mph winds immediately before the levees broke. Nobody's gonna fill sandbags in those conditions unless they have a death wish.

Most flooding in the Midwest, you've got a few days to prepare because the water rises slowly. With hurricanes, that can all happen overnight, especially with the storm surge. And any preparations you have beforehand can be rendered moot by the winds, tornadoes and everything else.

Iowa isn't dealing with a massive knockdown of the electrical grid, either. Nor trees and houses being thrown all over the place to the point where it blocks roads.

Hurricanes are completely different animals than just localized flooding. Take all the difficulties of flooding and triple them.

Good thing Katrina weakend and moved east of NO and gave them 110 to 120 mph sustained winds and not 170 mph . Having a week to prepare and having the NWS issue one of the most strongest worded warnings for NO ever done, more than a day ahead.