Mayor Taylor To Give BOK $7 Mil for Great Plains

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


Agreed, it is common. Just hadn't experienced it there. Timing is suspicious, however.

Which leads to some discussion about perhaps getting the Council to pass a resolution requiring digital posting of Agendas. This is the electronic age. Might throw in an email subscriber automated mailing for good measure.

Currently, the only legal posting requirements are on the board outside City Hall. Sometimes that can be inconvenient(almost always).

The electronic posting can be in addition, not necessarily replacing.

And, as a byproduct, citizens would be more informed and better served. Imagine that.

I would love to receive an email notice, since I rarely check the site currently. Yet, while not incredibly difficult to develop, I believe that the IT department is already squeezed pretty tight. I interned a few years back, and realized that there is a significant backlog. That is one department in the city that I would love to see some more money thrown at (but I am also biased, being an IT person). []

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


Agreed, it is common. Just hadn't experienced it there. Timing is suspicious, however.

Which leads to some discussion about perhaps getting the Council to pass a resolution requiring digital posting of Agendas. This is the electronic age. Might throw in an email subscriber automated mailing for good measure.

Currently, the only legal posting requirements are on the board outside City Hall. Sometimes that can be inconvenient(almost always).

The electronic posting can be in addition, not necessarily replacing.

And, as a byproduct, citizens would be more informed and better served. Imagine that.

I would love to receive an email notice, since I rarely check the site currently. Yet, while not incredibly difficult to develop, I believe that the IT department is already squeezed pretty tight. I interned a few years back, and realized that there is a significant backlog. That is one department in the city that I would love to see some more money thrown at (but I am also biased, being an IT person). []

Well, I can't say I know much of those things. But, what I proposed is not reinventing the wheel. There are literally thousands of existing scripts around to use. Might make a good days' work.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Double A

The bond rating argument is steaming hot B.S. to scare the public into accepting this deal and somehow lull the public into a false sense of security that Da Mare is somehow protecting us from the boogeyman. The public won't be scared or silenced into submission and subjugation like little children under the spin of this patronizing condescension.

Or a thinly-veiled threat from one of our members who travels in the same circles as Kaiser talking about all the people BOK employs and what all they give back.  BOK wouldn't get up and walk out on Tulsa if they were not re-paid the $7.1mm.  

If there is some sort of banking reg which would enjoin the city in liablility on this, sure I could see us paying up.  I've not heard that yet.  In the instance where a debtor puts up collateral, disposes of the collateral and the bank cannot repossess it, it still does not alleviate the debtor of the debt.  If they have the ability to pay otherwise, the are legally obliged.  However, the city was not a party to the defense on this until this week.

Dick Stupidity screwed us, he needs to be run out of town on a rail, straight to the ocean.

I am certain Dick Stupidity was preasured like Brute Banker and others by our current Suckretary of State.

Doesn't matter if or who pressured him.  He put his professional license on the line when he issued his opinion and executed his signature.  Should I assume you play golf with Dick Stupidity as well as big wigs at BOK since you seem to be defending him?

Are you certain it involved pressure and not a set of knee pads and a towel? []

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


Inteller,

When I have time I'll see if I can find a starting point for you in Oklahoma law.   Qui Tam as you refer to it is a Federal Statute and I am ignorant of a State equivalent.  

See 62 O.S. 372 & 373

I called around all day and couldn't find a firm in Tulsa who would take a look at this.  I'm now talking to an outfit in OKC.  I'm sure they will jump at the chance to give Tulsa's mayor a black eye.

[Chris Medlock]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Wait a minute. I'm a little confused as well. My wife asked me this evening just why we were having to pay for this Great Plaines thing. Our real estate taxes go up again and we don't have anything to show for it.

Good question. BOK was lead on by unscrupulous borrowers who really didn't have the title to collateral and suddenly disappear leaving the bank holding the bag. Just like when the bank has to go repossess a car and the car is gone and no paperwork exists to prove a car was ever purchased. Whoops, burned. Except all the principals seem to have skated on this one and my real estate tax is increased to cover the losses of the richest man in town. Yeah, its clear now.

edit with anger slowly subsiding...About the only thing that does make sense to me is that there does seem to be a moral case for doing the right thing. We put our trust in these elected officials to represent us and they failed to do so without reneging on a deal. However, if it is "unjust enrichment" just how were we enriched and why don't I feel enriched?

Biggest problem with the morality excuse is that BOK had handled the bond indentures for all TAIT transactions for decades before the made the loans. Officers within their own bank knew the FAA wouldn't approve the collateral agreement. Since they knew the security was bogus, they can only claim Savage had a moral obligation to pay them back IF they KNEW that the whole agreement was a house of cards.

Hard to believe they didn't know.

[Chris Medlock]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Holy $#!^, what a crock: KOTV forgets to mention the Mayor in their story, like it was the Council's idea! And the World devoted three times more words to the story, not mentioning the Mayor by name, just lil' 'm'!

Kathy Taylor served on the BOK Board of Directors. So did David Griffin. David Griffin is the Griffin of Griffin Communications. Griffin Communications owns KOTV.

So you think they're going to stick anything on KT?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Medlock

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Holy $#!^, what a crock: KOTV forgets to mention the Mayor in their story, like it was the Council's idea! And the World devoted three times more words to the story, not mentioning the Mayor by name, just lil' 'm'!

Kathy Taylor served on the BOK Board of Directors. So did David Griffin. David Griffin is the Griffin of Griffin Communications. Griffin Communications owns KOTV.

So you think they're going to stick anything on KT?

Welcome to the Banana Republic of Tulsa!  

Thought maybe you'd have figured out by now that's where you live.

Notice that the Sinking Fund Blitz was launched AFTER a new city council was sworn in.

The Kaisers had to get some more of their toadies on the city council:  Patrick, Gomez, and Bynum (LaFortunate Son).

Troyer finally grew some backbone last nite.  Too late.  They'll cancel his life support next election.

Jack Henderson was allowed to vote his conscience, since his vote didn't matter after they'd already locked up Eagleton, Martinet, Gomez, Patrick and Westcott.

Another sad day for Tulsans.  They'll be many, many more until the peasants take back Tulsa.


[:O]

[RecycleMichael]

This is the wikipedia version of Great Plains Airlines...

Great Plains Airlines was a regional airline headquartered out of Tulsa, Oklahoma USA with a hub in Oklahoma City. The airline was founded in 2001 but filed bankruptcy and ceased operations in 2004 after a bid for assistance through the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) was rejected. The airline's foundation was based upon giving Oklahoma non-stop flights to a number of destinations, ultimately to business centers on the east and west coasts, but poor management and increased competition into the Oklahoma market killed the airline.

To assist in starting the airline, the operating certificate was purchased from Ozark Airlines, an airline not related to the original Ozark Airlines, but a small airline operating Dornier 328JETs. The airline also took over operations of Ozark's two aircraft.

The airline had several signature items, including Krispy Kreme donuts on breakfast flights, and the paintwork on the vertical stabilizers (tail) of their aircraft would change color from blue to purple depending on the viewing angle.

The airline was founded right before the September 11th attacks that grounded airlines across the country. All the airlines suffered because nobody wanted to fly. All the big players were bailed out with billions from President Bush but Great Plains Airlines was not.

Yes, there was probably some mismanagement, but you got to believe it the most important reason they failed was their timing. Lots of start up ventures fail their first year and being smacked with industry terrorism right off the bat was too much to overcome.

I knew the city and the authority was risking something to help make this business succeed. It was covered by the local media. The contracts were discussed at public meetings. I agreed with a large number of people at the time that we really needed a direct flight to the two coasts if we were going to be able to compete in the American business world. Any businessman getting to Tulsa by air from LA or New York could cut their travel time in half. Time was money.

This was a business idea that would have a real boost to Tulsans if it would have succeeded. It didn't and having it's failure hanging over our ability to finance future projects could have made it haunt us for years to come.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

This is the wikipedia version of Great Plains Airlines...

Great Plains Airlines was a regional airline headquartered out of Tulsa, Oklahoma USA with a hub in Oklahoma City. The airline was founded in 2001 but filed bankruptcy and ceased operations in 2004 after a bid for assistance through the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) was rejected. The airline's foundation was based upon giving Oklahoma non-stop flights to a number of destinations, ultimately to business centers on the east and west coasts, but poor management and increased competition into the Oklahoma market killed the airline.

To assist in starting the airline, the operating certificate was purchased from Ozark Airlines, an airline not related to the original Ozark Airlines, but a small airline operating Dornier 328JETs. The airline also took over operations of Ozark's two aircraft.

The airline had several signature items, including Krispy Kreme donuts on breakfast flights, and the paintwork on the vertical stabilizers (tail) of their aircraft would change color from blue to purple depending on the viewing angle.

The airline was founded right before the September 11th attacks that grounded airlines across the country. All the airlines suffered because nobody wanted to fly. All the big players were bailed out with billions from President Bush but Great Plains Airlines was not.

Yes, there was probably some mismanagement, but you got to believe it the most important reason they failed was their timing. Lots of start up ventures fail their first year and being smacked with industry terrorism right off the bat was too much to overcome.

I knew the city and the authority was risking something to help make this business succeed. It was covered by the local media. The contracts were discussed at public meetings. I agreed with a large number of people at the time that we really needed a direct flight to the two coasts if we were going to be able to compete in the American business world. Any businessman getting to Tulsa by air from LA or New York could cut their travel time in half. Time was money.

This was a business idea that would have a real boost to Tulsans if it would have succeeded. It didn't and having it's failure hanging over our ability to finance future projects could have made it haunt us for years to come.

Continental Airlines decided to fly non-stop to Newark from Tulsa 1x per day.  They still do at last count.

American at one time had non-stop from Tulsa to L.A. for several years after GPA came to town.

And, neither airline got $40 million in Oklahoma taxpayer subsidies.

GPA was a Cloud-Cuckoo-Land Business Plan from the start.

Their first planes:  

Insufficient range to fly non-stop to either coast.

NEVER had a plane that could fly non-stop to east or west coast.

Where did the money go?

Follow the Money.  

Always.

Whenever the Bankruptcy Court finally releases the details of the company's financial failure. (Pat Malloy III - Trustee).

Isn't he married into the local ruling Oligarchy?

Figures.

Definitely won't be ANY assets left after the bankruptcy attorney chews over the carcass.

News be coming out soon; else, why the RUSH to use the City Sinking Fund to pay BOK $7.1 million?

Needed to get the deal finished before the honey pot trail to the local Grandees gets released.


[:O]

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

This is the wikipedia version of Great Plains Airlines...

Great Plains Airlines was a regional airline headquartered out of Tulsa, Oklahoma USA with a hub in Oklahoma City. The airline was founded in 2001 but filed bankruptcy and ceased operations in 2004 after a bid for assistance through the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) was rejected. The airline's foundation was based upon giving Oklahoma non-stop flights to a number of destinations, ultimately to business centers on the east and west coasts, but poor management and increased competition into the Oklahoma market killed the airline.

To assist in starting the airline, the operating certificate was purchased from Ozark Airlines, an airline not related to the original Ozark Airlines, but a small airline operating Dornier 328JETs. The airline also took over operations of Ozark's two aircraft.

The airline had several signature items, including Krispy Kreme donuts on breakfast flights, and the paintwork on the vertical stabilizers (tail) of their aircraft would change color from blue to purple depending on the viewing angle.

The airline was founded right before the September 11th attacks that grounded airlines across the country. All the airlines suffered because nobody wanted to fly. All the big players were bailed out with billions from President Bush but Great Plains Airlines was not.

Yes, there was probably some mismanagement, but you got to believe it the most important reason they failed was their timing. Lots of start up ventures fail their first year and being smacked with industry terrorism right off the bat was too much to overcome.

I knew the city and the authority was risking something to help make this business succeed. It was covered by the local media. The contracts were discussed at public meetings. I agreed with a large number of people at the time that we really needed a direct flight to the two coasts if we were going to be able to compete in the American business world. Any businessman getting to Tulsa by air from LA or New York could cut their travel time in half. Time was money.

This was a business idea that would have a real boost to Tulsans if it would have succeeded. It didn't and having it's failure hanging over our ability to finance future projects could have made it haunt us for years to come.

So it's being haunting us ? Who is "us"
What KT did will be haunting us more than the above haunting was doing

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

This is the wikipedia version of Great Plains Airlines...

Great Plains Airlines was a regional airline headquartered out of Tulsa, Oklahoma USA with a hub in Oklahoma City. The airline was founded in 2001 but filed bankruptcy and ceased operations in 2004 after a bid for assistance through the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) was rejected. The airline's foundation was based upon giving Oklahoma non-stop flights to a number of destinations, ultimately to business centers on the east and west coasts, but poor management and increased competition into the Oklahoma market killed the airline.

To assist in starting the airline, the operating certificate was purchased from Ozark Airlines, an airline not related to the original Ozark Airlines, but a small airline operating Dornier 328JETs. The airline also took over operations of Ozark's two aircraft.

The airline had several signature items, including Krispy Kreme donuts on breakfast flights, and the paintwork on the vertical stabilizers (tail) of their aircraft would change color from blue to purple depending on the viewing angle.

The airline was founded right before the September 11th attacks that grounded airlines across the country. All the airlines suffered because nobody wanted to fly. All the big players were bailed out with billions from President Bush but Great Plains Airlines was not.

Yes, there was probably some mismanagement, but you got to believe it the most important reason they failed was their timing. Lots of start up ventures fail their first year and being smacked with industry terrorism right off the bat was too much to overcome.

I knew the city and the authority was risking something to help make this business succeed. It was covered by the local media. The contracts were discussed at public meetings. I agreed with a large number of people at the time that we really needed a direct flight to the two coasts if we were going to be able to compete in the American business world. Any businessman getting to Tulsa by air from LA or New York could cut their travel time in half. Time was money.

This was a business idea that would have a real boost to Tulsans if it would have succeeded. It didn't and having it's failure hanging over our ability to finance future projects could have made it haunt us for years to come.

So it's being haunting us ? Who is "us"
What KT did will be haunting us more than the above haunting was doing

It's been haunting the bad-loan-gone-bye-bye loan accounts at a certain local Plutocrat bank for the past 4 years.

Mr. Moneybags Kaiser is the 26th richest man in Amerika.

He wants to move up to #25.

We're helping him.

He really APPRECIATES it.

Really.



[]

[RecycleMichael]

I have to agree one of their business mistakes was buying the wrong planes. They bought out the operating license and planes of Ozark Airlines.  It probably was a good price. I don't know. I don't know how much planes sell for.

All that is in the past. It doesn't change the facts that the city and the airport were still being affected by the airline that failed during a previous administration. I don't like paying any more in taxes than the next guy, but want to do the right thing. As much as you guys want to disagree, I think the city is doing the right thing here.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I have to agree one of their business mistakes was buying the wrong planes. They bought out the operating license and planes of Ozark Airlines.  It probably was a good price. I don't know. I don't know how much planes sell for.

All that is in the past. It doesn't change the facts that the city and the airport were still being affected by the airline that failed during a previous administration. I don't like paying any more in taxes than the next guy, but want to do the right thing. As much as you guys want to disagree, I think the city is doing the right thing here.

I totally agree that the dear, poor thing deserves our $7.1 million.  

Mr. Kaiser really deserves the $7.1 million.

We Need to Feed his Greed.

He needs to move up to #25.  Soon.

We can help.

We'll feel much better afterwards.

Count on it.

I'm already starting to feel a little bit better.

Really.  

It will Transform our Soul.

Honest.  

Just like the Arena.  

It fixed the cash-flow problems of the Rooney and Flint families for a few years.

See.

And, the new half-sized Downtown AA-Class baseball stadium.  

Wonder who will build it?

Guess who?

Used only 66 nites per year for home games.

Feeling MUCH better.

Is it the Flint Family, or the Rooney Family that co-owns the Island in the Caribbean with the Lorton's World family?

We'll definitely need to LIGHT and GUARD the new Driller stadium in its proposed Ghetto location.

Will the Crips and Bloods offer Valet Parking?

Any free parking thereabouts??  

Who'll provide Overwatch while we run to our cars after a baseball game?

Will Storey Wrecker respond when we find our cars hoisted tireless on Egg Crates?

Thank you Mayor Taylor for your bold leadership in this matter.  

Positively Transformational.

Transforming our hard earned tax dollars into a gift to the #26 richest man in the U.S.........

George Kaiser.

Soon to be Mr. #25.

Say, I just heard that the City of Tulsa can afford to open only FOUR city pools on its own this summer.

Out of 22 city pools.

4 of 22.

Our glorious City Government can afford to open FOUR city pools this summer.

Really, it's FOR THE CHILDREN.  

The children are much safer if there is NO WATER in the city pools.

That way, they positively cannot drown.

Never.

Guaranteed.

See, it's FOR THE CHILDREN.

Like last year's Kaiser River Tax.

It's FOR THE CHILDREN.

See!  Believe!


[]

[waterboy]

This thread reads like a transcript from court proceedings on a TV show. Boston Legal or whatever. Those of us without law degrees, insider knowledge of the nobility and where the bodies are buried....are not amused. It appears as if the nexus of pragmatism, morality, greed, elitism, partisanship and incompetency is about to go nuclear.

Can't tell who has an axe to grind and whose lying but I'll tell you this, average folks don't understand what's happening and they're pretty pissed. Unless its outright fraud and can be proved as such then pay the man for his bad loan and be done with it. We don't need more useless drama in the form of peeing fights at city hall. File a suit or drop it. Seriously, spend your time and efforts on cleaning up the populations of these authorities. RPA and Airports Authorities should be first.

Those of you who would rather see the city collapse than give credit to a female, pseudo-democrat are as dreadful as the people you prosecute on this forum. Likely you have enough money to withstand the furor and chaos you so desire. The rest of us don't. Yeah, Kaiser, Flints, Rooneys are all rich and throw their weight around. I'll take our rich versus anyone else's rich though. You act like they invented such behavior.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

This thread reads like a transcript from court proceedings on a TV show. Boston Legal or whatever. Those of us without law degrees, insider knowledge of the nobility and where the bodies are buried....are not amused. It appears as if the nexus of pragmatism, morality, greed, elitism, partisanship and incompetency is about to go nuclear.

Can't tell who has an axe to grind and whose lying but I'll tell you this, average folks don't understand what's happening and they're pretty pissed. Unless its outright fraud and can be proved as such then pay the man for his bad loan and be done with it. We don't need more useless drama in the form of peeing fights at city hall. File a suit or drop it. Seriously, spend your time and efforts on cleaning up the populations of these authorities. RPA and Airports Authorities should be first.

Those of you who would rather see the city collapse than give credit to a female, pseudo-democrat are as dreadful as the people you prosecute on this forum. Likely you have enough money to withstand the furor and chaos you so desire. The rest of us don't. Yeah, Kaiser, Flints, Rooneys are all rich and throw their weight around. I'll take our rich versus anyone else's rich though. You act like they invented such behavior.

The poor dears.  

Mr. Kaiser et al:

They are so needy.

We NEED to FEED their GREED.

We'll feel much better.

Really.

I'm already feeling better.  

Really.

I'm glowing.

Feeling transformed.

Keep trying to move #26 to #25.

We'll feel better.

Much.