Mayor Taylor To Give BOK $7 Mil for Great Plains

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why does he not 'donate' to the City the $7M?

Hard as it may be to grasp, Kaiser and BOK are two seperate entities. Not-so-Great Plains Airlines is a big black eye for BOK in front of their stockholders. BOK cannot be shown to be a business to put Tulsa ahead of BOK. Writing off a huge loan without persuing every avenue or receiving even the smallest (7M) token would be seen as misdirection of the company.

Eh, you beat me to it.  As well, the Kaiser Foundation is it's own separate entity.  Kaiser can direct where funds go from his foundation.  I'd like to think that there would have been this announcement whether or not the city had agreed to pay this money.  Kaiser has many other interests aside from BOK which contribute to his wealth, including Kaiser-Francis oil company.

[FOTD]

It is black and white to a large degree.

Thank gawd we went through the late 70's and early 80's with stupid lenders in this state.
Many municipalities are getting ready to be kicked in the teeth by their local bankers.
We just get pinched in the rump by angry taxpayers.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why does he not 'donate' to the City the $7M?

Because the state by law has to match his $25 million making it $50 million and that $50 million in local higher education will make more a long term difference than this $7 million ever could in a city budget of over $550 million dollars.

So, he just today gave Tulsa a donation that will with state matching funds be nine times more money than what the seven million will cost. Is there anyone that thinks that is a bad deal?

You really don't get it, do you?

Oh, I get it. The city of Tulsa owed $7 million dollars and paid it (or agreed to pay it) last week. This week Kaiser and his foundation not only gave back the $7 million, he added another $18 million to it, and donated the money in such a fashion that the state has to match what he donated bringing the total to $50 million.

I don't exactly have $7 million laying around, but if I had $7,000 and someone told me that if I gave them my $7,000 they would give me back $50,000 I would make that deal every day of the week, unless of course the deal was outlined in an e-mail from Nigeria.

I don't think you get "it"

"The city of Tulsa owed $7 million dollars..."

See there, you got off on the wrong foot in the first line.

[FOTD]

I think this thread could use some botox.....

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Swake:

A "couple million" in legal fees is absurd.  This is a fairly straight forward case, certainly not requiring some 10,000 hours of lawyer time.  And why do you say we "probably would not win" when the cause of action is "unjust enrichment" and we (the City of Tulsa) hold not riches?   A precursory look at the case has issues that are not so clear cut in either direction.

That said, offering to pay the FULL amount is not settling a case, it's just handing over the money.

This situation is far too complex for citizens like us, who pay attention to fully understand:  
Why was Tulsa not named in the original suit?
Why were we added?  
Who has interests in this transaction (other than the counsel, the mayor, the city attorney, failed businessmen, the local newspaper, a local billionaire, and a large company)?  
Was the underlying transaction legal (apperently not)?
What are our legal responsibilities likely to be?  
If we don't owe the money, SHOULD we pay it and if so... why?  
Who are the actual parties (City, BOk, TAA, TIA?)?

I'm trying to figure it out, and don't have the answers to most of those questions.  I can not say if we owe the money, and if we don't - on what basis we should pay it.  This is not a matter against Kaiser nor BOk, they are supposed to look out for themselves... my concern is with the City.  

As a citizen, I expect full disclosure and transparency.  I think we deserve a closer look and full information on this matter before we hand over $7mil (or 25% of the public funding for a new downtown stadium).

I also think all the chest puffing about who has the furthest reach casts all parties in a bad light.  Move on please.

Absurd? Tulsa spent more two million on representation in the Black Officers lawsuit and then had to pay another amount well in excess of two million for the plaintiff's fees when the city lost.

And while the city specifically may not have been named, TIA was, and TIA is a governmental authority created and controlled by the city to administer city property. TIA is part of city government and when TIA is named in a lawsuit, the city is being sued.

Wrong, TIA is NOT controled by the City of Tulsa, nor is it a 'governmental' entity or have any authority to control city property.

Tulsa is, however, declared the benefactor of TIA, but that doesn't obligate the city to whatever TIA does.

Besides all that, TIA was also not named, it is the Plaintiff in its' own suit against TAIT, originally, and, as of last week, the City of Tulsa (by Ms. Kitty's voluntary placement).

I have the distinct feeling you don't understand all the circumstances here.

What it boils down to is the Mayor had to make this payment to prevent someone, or more, from going to jail. The final piece of the cover they've been working to complete for four years.

Now they hope it just goes away.

But,we have have questions.

Is this not control? All member appointed by mayor and approved by city council. Authority created by city ordinance and meet at city hall:

Tulsa Industrial Authority (TIA)
MEMBERS:    Mayor (or full-time City Employee to serve as designee),
7 Mayoral appointees with Council approval (must be a citizen and resident of Tulsa)

Chair elected by members.
TERM:    5 years, staggered, expiring on March 7
CREATED BY:    TITLE 39, CHAPTER 10
MEETINGS:    Periodically, usually at City Hall.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why does he not 'donate' to the City the $7M?

Hard as it may be to grasp, Kaiser and BOK are two seperate entities. Not-so-Great Plains Airlines is a big black eye for BOK in front of their stockholders. BOK cannot be shown to be a business to put Tulsa ahead of BOK. Writing off a huge loan without persuing every avenue or receiving even the smallest (7M) token would be seen as misdirection of the company.

Eh, you beat me to it.  As well, the Kaiser Foundation is it's own separate entity.  Kaiser can direct where funds go from his foundation.  I'd like to think that there would have been this announcement whether or not the city had agreed to pay this money.  Kaiser has many other interests aside from BOK which contribute to his wealth, including Kaiser-Francis oil company.

Exactly right. Bank of Oklahoma both as a federally chartered bank and as a publicly traded company has a legal responsibility to pursue the $7 million from TIA and the city of Tulsa no matter what Kaiser's feelings on the subject are.

As for hiding criminal wrong doing, that's just plain stupid. The people running things today are not the same people that were there when Great Plains was started. Medlock (when he was on the council) and others have spent a lot of time and a lot of money looking for any kind evidence of wrong doing and have come up with nothing even criminal looking much less any charges. Great Plains was a nice idea with a mediocre business plan that died in the aftermath of airline problems after 9-11.

[cannon_fodder]

Honestly people, Kaiser's philanthropy and the $7,100,000 HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.  

First of all, the concept of pay-o-la for charity is ridiculous.  If you give me $7mil I'll donate $25mil - what kind of sense is that?

Second, Kaiser is worth nearly $11 Bil according to Forbes.  He owns about 63% of BOKF, or $2.2Billion.  He gives away hundreds of millions in his foundation.  You think he is staying up at night worrying about $7mil?  (incidentally, to fuel the oligarchy speculators - Robert J LaFortune owns 81,795 shares of BOKF).

And finally, the issue is NOT whether George Kaiser is a great philanthropist and good for the city.  No one is arguing that he is not.  BUT we do not settle complex litigation without clarifying the position and figuring out what's going on because we like a possible beneficiary.

BOKF and the other plaintiffs have a duty to look out for themselves, the City has a duty to look our for the citizens.  If they are looking out for us by paying, great.  But please explain to us what's going on.  

So, for the love of god... can we drop the "I love Kaiser so lets give him the money" angle.

[deinstein]

This thread is politics as usual.

No thanks.

[}:)]

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why does he not 'donate' to the City the $7M?

Hard as it may be to grasp, Kaiser and BOK are two seperate entities. Not-so-Great Plains Airlines is a big black eye for BOK in front of their stockholders. BOK cannot be shown to be a business to put Tulsa ahead of BOK. Writing off a huge loan without persuing every avenue or receiving even the smallest (7M) token would be seen as misdirection of the company.

Eh, you beat me to it.  As well, the Kaiser Foundation is it's own separate entity.  Kaiser can direct where funds go from his foundation.  I'd like to think that there would have been this announcement whether or not the city had agreed to pay this money.  Kaiser has many other interests aside from BOK which contribute to his wealth, including Kaiser-Francis oil company.

Exactly right. Bank of Oklahoma both as a federally chartered bank and as a publicly traded company has a legal responsibility to pursue the $7 million from TIA and the city of Tulsa no matter what Kaiser's feelings on the subject are.

As for hiding criminal wrong doing, that's just plain stupid. The people running things today are not the same people that were there when Great Plains was started. Medlock (when he was on the council) and others have spent a lot of time and a lot of money looking for any kind evidence of wrong doing and have come up with nothing even criminal looking much less any charges. Great Plains was a nice idea with a mediocre business plan that died in the aftermath of airline problems after 9-11.

+1

Well stated.

[tim huntzinger]

This is looking like one of them 'liar loan' situations.  At what point does BOK just take it in the bootay for not vetting the process?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why does he not 'donate' to the City the $7M?

Maybe Mr. Kaiser's family foundation could endow our city's Public Pools to perpetuity.

The city of Tulsa only managed to pay to operate  4 of 22 pools again this summer.

Do a whole lot more good with his $$'s than throwing more money down a rat-hole that are our two major mediocrities of state universities.

I notice that George Kaiser didn't attend college in Oklahoma......Harvard wasn't it?

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why does he not 'donate' to the City the $7M?

Maybe Mr. Kaiser's family foundation could endow our city's Public Pools to perpetuity.

The city of Tulsa only managed to pay to operate  4 of 22 pools again this summer.

Do a whole lot more good with his $$'s than throwing more money down a rat-hole that are our two major mediocrities of state universities.

I notice that George Kaiser didn't attend college in Oklahoma......Harvard wasn't it?

LOL.  The money towards the local public universities is clearly a better investment.  What nonsense on your part to criticize a man for giving millions to the local colleges.

[Conan71]

I do have a question regarding what I read about the use of the donations.

Is there a reason Universities would chose to fund professorships over finiancial aid for students?

I'm not saying what they've done with the donations is wrong, just questioning how the decision process works in prioritizing  endowments, grants, and donations.

Just curious, I have no hidden agenda on the matter.

[Conan71]

I think we have exhausted this thread...finally.

One last glance at the topic title and I could not resist:

 
Mayor Taylor To Give BOK $7 Mil for Great Plains

Why would she want to buy Great Plains?  Doesn't she know they went out of business?

[}:)]

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I do have a question regarding what I read about the use of the donations.

Is there a reason Universities would chose to fund professorships over finiancial aid for students?

I'm not saying what they've done with the donations is wrong, just questioning how the decision process works in prioritizing  endowments, grants, and donations.

Just curious, I have no hidden agenda on the matter.

Sounds like a great topic of discussion for another thread.