Why do we need a new baseball stadium?

[cannon_fodder]

The Brady is entirely inadequate as a full service PAC.  It lacks the stage space, the amenities, and the technical requirements for a modern theater.  Productions such as Phantom, Lion King and other marquee events simply would bypass Tulsa.  

Not too mention the municipal ownership of the PAC allows the smaller halls and practice areas to be used by other groups.  Small local productions would take up too much time and space while not returning enough revenue to make cent$ for the Brady.  I love the Brady, but a PAC for the entire community it is not (even if it were run as a non-profit it would probably not suffice).
- - -

Someone mentioned whispers that the fair board wants Driller's stadium gone, where did you hear that and WHY do they want that?
- - -

[AVERAGE JOE]

FB/Boo/Double A,

What part of "the Drillers are actively shopping for a new stadium and reach a tentative agreement with Jenks" do you not understand? Are you in favor of allowing the Drillers (and the resulting sales tax revenue) to move to Jenks?

Do you not see this as an economic development investment for the next 30 years and an anchor for downtown to boot? We'll have a $60 million investment at the crossroads of Blue Dome, Brady and Greenwood - HALF of which will be private contributions.

A new ballpark isn't a priority like police, ambulance service, streets, or water, but the proposed financing reflects that -- there is no broad-based tax increase. The citizens will be getting this amenity on someone else's dime. The people who stand to benefit the most from the stadium (downtown property owners) will foot less than half the bill, the rest comes from the Drillers and private donations.

Sometimes the glass really is half full.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

As far as I know, it's any landowner's right to do absolutely nothing with his or her holdings as long as the taxes are paid and minimum health codes / property standards are maintained.

Do you ever listen to yourself?  You are arguing that the city should REWARD do-nothings who buy up huge chunks of property for speculative purposes.  Wilson is hanging out doing nothing and hoping someone will build something nice around him.  Last I checked, that makes him part of the problem.

And FB, you should stop now with this "'hood" talk.  Greenwood is safe.  You've exposed your biases on other occasions and it's ugly.

Go for a stroll tonite after dark in the area of the proposed Ball Park.

Then, report back tomorrow if you're in one piece, and have retained your virtue.

The proposed ball park is in too close of proximity to a bad area.  

LOTS of the homeless shelter people and aid society patrons patronize the area.  

Also, it's not purely a racial issue, but gangs like to take over venues where a lot of people with wallets full of money patronize.  

And, it has an added benefit of being close to their base of operations:  The 'hood.

Everyone knows it.

But, I'm not drinking the MetroTulsaChamberPots Kool-Aid.

Are you?

The Drillers currently charge $6 for a General Admission ticket.

My prediction is if they build this unneeded stadium downtown will be a $10 per ticket minimum.

Just wait until Tulsans start seeing the BOK Arena Ticket Shock for upcoming events, following by the Drillers Downtown Stadium Ticket Shock.

Ouch!

Mrs. Kitty is such a High Maintenance Woman.

How much longer can we afford her?

Poor Mr. Lobeck.

Poor Tulsa.

[]

This is just silly.  There isn't much around the area of the proposed stadium.  I drove by on the way home from Cain's at about 12:30 AM Sunday morning.  No criminals, no gangs, nothing.  Businesses with lights off and OSU Tulsa -- that's it.

I go downtown every weekend and I've never seen a gang.  The worst thing to happen is someone asked me for change.  I told them no.  Once or twice, I saw what looked like a really bad off prostitute near that really sad block across from Deadtown.  Other than that, I've seen nothing down there, especially near "Greenwood."

The homeless shelter is a good half mile away.  I'm not happy with the shelter being down there, but that's a whole other discussion.

If gangs went wherever there was money, events like D-fest and Mayfest and all the Indian casinos wouldn't exist.  Poor logic yet again.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Go for a stroll tonite after dark in the area of the proposed Ball Park.

Then, report back tomorrow if you're in one piece, and have retained your virtue.

The proposed ball park is in too close of proximity to a bad area.

I've walked to shows at the Cain's and Brady dozens of times over years and years.  It's fine.  Greenwood is not near to any "bad areas" and gangs don't hang out in the area at night.

Talk about Kook-Aid; how's your refreshment stand doing?

Have you bumped into any packs of youths armed with long sticks transitting to the Brady?

I have.

Probably a baseball team.  If you had ever seen a baseball game, you would know that baseball players use bats to hit the ball.  

This is just silly stuff.  If there was a raving Clockwork Orange-esque pack of youths, please call the police.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

FB/Boo/Double A,

What part of "the Drillers are actively shopping for a new stadium and reach a tentative agreement with Jenks" do you not understand? Are you in favor of allowing the Drillers (and the resulting sales tax revenue) to move to Jenks?

Do you not see this as an economic development investment for the next 30 years and an anchor for downtown to boot? We'll have a $60 million investment at the crossroads of Blue Dome, Brady and Greenwood - HALF of which will be private contributions.

A new ballpark isn't a priority like police, ambulance service, streets, or water, but the proposed financing reflects that -- there is no broad-based tax increase. The citizens will be getting this amenity on someone else's dime. The people who stand to benefit the most from the stadium (downtown property owners) will foot less than half the bill, the rest comes from the Drillers and private donations.

Sometimes the glass really is half full.

Just don't insult my intelligence by telling the public we need this. You may want it, but the public does not need it. I am sick of good money being thrown after bad downtown. Just look at all the money that has been spent on Downtown with pathetic, if any, return on the investment while the rest of the city sits in a state of neglect. What private investor in their right mind would continue to throw their money away on an investment with such poor returns?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

FB/Boo/Double A,

What part of "the Drillers are actively shopping for a new stadium and reach a tentative agreement with Jenks" do you not understand? Are you in favor of allowing the Drillers (and the resulting sales tax revenue) to move to Jenks?

Do you not see this as an economic development investment for the next 30 years and an anchor for downtown to boot? We'll have a $60 million investment at the crossroads of Blue Dome, Brady and Greenwood - HALF of which will be private contributions.

A new ballpark isn't a priority like police, ambulance service, streets, or water, but the proposed financing reflects that -- there is no broad-based tax increase. The citizens will be getting this amenity on someone else's dime. The people who stand to benefit the most from the stadium (downtown property owners) will foot less than half the bill, the rest comes from the Drillers and private donations.

Sometimes the glass really is half full.

Just don't insult my intelligence by telling the public we need this. You may want it, but the public does not need it. I am sick of good money being thrown after bad downtown. Just look at all the money that has been spent on Downtown with pathetic, if any, return on the investment while the rest of the city sits in a state of neglect. What private investor in their right would continue to throw their money away on an investment with such poor returns?

Any investor in their right mind would buy the Nordam and Bill White properties now and release them back for 3 years to their current tenants.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Double A
I am sick of good money being thrown after bad downtown.

I believe you are in the minority on this one. Downtown is doing very well right now. Occupancy rates are up, new restaurants have opened and the after-hours clubs are beginning to get busy.

The arena is going to make everything better downtown. When this ballpark opens, the place to be is going to be downtown.

Why are you so negative?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Double A
I am sick of good money being thrown after bad downtown.

I believe you are in the minority on this one. Downtown is doing very well right now. Occupancy rates are up, new restaurants have opened and the after-hours clubs are beginning to get busy.

The arena is going to make everything better downtown. When this ballpark opens, the place to be is going to be downtown.

Why are you so negative?

Recycle is, well, recycling DTU and MetroTulsaCrackedChamberPot propaganda that they pull out and dust off after every "magical" transformation that is supposed to occur when public money is expended downtown.

They said it when the Maxwell Convention Center was proposed.

They said it with the Williams Tower urban renewal steamroller.

They said it with the PAC, and minimized the significant cost overruns.

They said it with the downtown Main Mall.  Which, 20 years later they decide to tear it up and re-open the streets.

They said it with Vision 2025, and the $140 million arena that will cost at least $200 million.

Mrs. Kitty said it when we overpaid by a factor of 3x on the One Technology Center.

Now, "just one more nail", per Mrs. Kitty, and downtown will be fixed if we only build a new baseball stadium --- DOWNTOWN.

Check back with me when there is a Walmart Neighborhood market downtown.

And, quit drinking the MetroTulsaChamberCrackPots Kool-Aid, ASAP.

It causes causes caries and promotes morbid obesity.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

As far as I know, it's any landowner's right to do absolutely nothing with his or her holdings as long as the taxes are paid and minimum health codes / property standards are maintained.

Do you ever listen to yourself?  You are arguing that the city should REWARD do-nothings who buy up huge chunks of property for speculative purposes.  Wilson is hanging out doing nothing and hoping someone will build something nice around him.  Last I checked, that makes him part of the problem.

And FB, you should stop now with this "'hood" talk.  Greenwood is safe.  You've exposed your biases on other occasions and it's ugly.

Go for a stroll tonite after dark in the area of the proposed Ball Park.

Then, report back tomorrow if you're in one piece, and have retained your virtue.

The proposed ball park is in too close of proximity to a bad area.  

LOTS of the homeless shelter people and aid society patrons patronize the area.  

Also, it's not purely a racial issue, but gangs like to take over venues where a lot of people with wallets full of money patronize.  

And, it has an added benefit of being close to their base of operations:  The 'hood.

Everyone knows it.

But, I'm not drinking the MetroTulsaChamberPots Kool-Aid.

Are you?

The Drillers currently charge $6 for a General Admission ticket.

My prediction is if they build this unneeded stadium downtown will be a $10 per ticket minimum.

Just wait until Tulsans start seeing the BOK Arena Ticket Shock for upcoming events, following by the Drillers Downtown Stadium Ticket Shock.

Ouch!

Mrs. Kitty is such a High Maintenance Woman.

How much longer can we afford her?

Poor Mr. Lobeck.

Poor Tulsa.

[]

This is just silly.  There isn't much around the area of the proposed stadium.  I drove by on the way home from Cain's at about 12:30 AM Sunday morning.  No criminals, no gangs, nothing.  Businesses with lights off and OSU Tulsa -- that's it.

I go downtown every weekend and I've never seen a gang.  The worst thing to happen is someone asked me for change.  I told them no.  Once or twice, I saw what looked like a really bad off prostitute near that really sad block across from Deadtown.  Other than that, I've seen nothing down there, especially near "Greenwood."

The homeless shelter is a good half mile away.  I'm not happy with the shelter being down there, but that's a whole other discussion.

If gangs went wherever there was money, events like D-fest and Mayfest and all the Indian casinos wouldn't exist.  Poor logic yet again.

Uh-Uh.

I said WALK.

Driving isn't the same.

Try WALKING the same area about 11 p.m, after a theoretical downtown Drillers game could end, and you have to walk 4 lonely blocks to where you think you left your car.....

Are those footsteps behind you in the dark?


[}:)]

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


Uh-Uh.

I said WALK.

Driving isn't the same.

Try WALKING the same area about 11 p.m, after a theoretical downtown Drillers game could end, and you have to walk 4 lonely blocks to where you think you left your car.....

Are those footsteps behind you in the dark?


[}:)]

I'll bite, since we've established that anecdotal evidence is admissable. I walk downtown (ALL around downtown) on a regular basis. I've never once seen anything similar to what you a describing. I've seen business people, cleaning crews, a couple of homeless people, a couple of people walking around just like me, but I've never seen anybody in that corner of downtown at night.

Sorry, but it sounds like you are just being a silly old Pooh-Bear.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

As far as I know, it's any landowner's right to do absolutely nothing with his or her holdings as long as the taxes are paid and minimum health codes / property standards are maintained.

Do you ever listen to yourself?  You are arguing that the city should REWARD do-nothings who buy up huge chunks of property for speculative purposes.  Wilson is hanging out doing nothing and hoping someone will build something nice around him.  Last I checked, that makes him part of the problem.

And FB, you should stop now with this "'hood" talk.  Greenwood is safe.  You've exposed your biases on other occasions and it's ugly.

Go for a stroll tonite after dark in the area of the proposed Ball Park.

Then, report back tomorrow if you're in one piece, and have retained your virtue.

The proposed ball park is in too close of proximity to a bad area.  

LOTS of the homeless shelter people and aid society patrons patronize the area.  

Also, it's not purely a racial issue, but gangs like to take over venues where a lot of people with wallets full of money patronize.  

And, it has an added benefit of being close to their base of operations:  The 'hood.

Everyone knows it.

But, I'm not drinking the MetroTulsaChamberPots Kool-Aid.

Are you?

The Drillers currently charge $6 for a General Admission ticket.

My prediction is if they build this unneeded stadium downtown will be a $10 per ticket minimum.

Just wait until Tulsans start seeing the BOK Arena Ticket Shock for upcoming events, following by the Drillers Downtown Stadium Ticket Shock.

Ouch!

Mrs. Kitty is such a High Maintenance Woman.

How much longer can we afford her?

Poor Mr. Lobeck.

Poor Tulsa.

[]

This is just silly.  There isn't much around the area of the proposed stadium.  I drove by on the way home from Cain's at about 12:30 AM Sunday morning.  No criminals, no gangs, nothing.  Businesses with lights off and OSU Tulsa -- that's it.

I go downtown every weekend and I've never seen a gang.  The worst thing to happen is someone asked me for change.  I told them no.  Once or twice, I saw what looked like a really bad off prostitute near that really sad block across from Deadtown.  Other than that, I've seen nothing down there, especially near "Greenwood."

The homeless shelter is a good half mile away.  I'm not happy with the shelter being down there, but that's a whole other discussion.

If gangs went wherever there was money, events like D-fest and Mayfest and all the Indian casinos wouldn't exist.  Poor logic yet again.

Uh-Uh.

I said WALK.

Driving isn't the same.

Try WALKING the same area about 11 p.m, after a theoretical downtown Drillers game could end, and you have to walk 4 lonely blocks to where you think you left your car.....

Are those footsteps behind you in the dark?


[}:)]

That's not accurate and you know it.  The development plan calls for a lot of in-fill, including the area around the stadium that is empty.

Go north a block and you are at OSU Tulsa.  Go south and you are in the Blue Dome.  There are already plenty of people walking around the Blue Dome area and the Brady District to the west -- there are a few pandhandlers, but mostly it's a younger crowd eating and drinking at the new bars and going to concerts.  

I take it you don't get out much.  Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if you heard sounds in your head a lot.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Double A



Just don't insult my intelligence by telling the public we need this. You may want it, but the public does not need it. I am sick of good money being thrown after bad downtown. Just look at all the money that has been spent on Downtown with pathetic, if any, return on the investment while the rest of the city sits in a state of neglect. What private investor in their right mind would continue to throw their money away on an investment with such poor returns?

Double A...... so you are placing your opinion of how money should be invested above Kanbar, Snider, Nelson, Sager, etc..

It is called "venture capitalism"....

They are not out to invest their money in the entire city..

Sorry about certain parts being "neglected". but I think the idea is ....Get the economic engine running and the rest will be taken care of by the increased tax revenue.

They are buying low to sell high...it's the American way..

Downtown is quickly approaching a flash point.....

I love


p.s.
Thank God Friendly Bear is not a Tax Collector....... With his criminal thought pattern we would be in deep doo doo.

[Hometown]

New stadium needs to incorporate an homage to Greenwood or it will be the nail in the coffin of what's left of the old neighborhood.

Entire city (or at least someone else) needs to pick up the part of the financing being pushed onto downtown.  Everyone, not just downtown, will benefit and you don't want to put a new burden on an area you are trying to encourage to grow.

Mr. Bear, Your fear of the Greenwood area is funny, until you realize that it's the same fear behind the racism that is still so prevalent hereabouts.

I still think a stadium on the river would be more of a destination and close enough to downtown to still be some benefit to downtown.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear



Try WALKING the same area about 11 p.m, after a theoretical downtown Drillers game could end, and you have to walk 4 lonely blocks to where you think you left your car.....

Are those footsteps behind you in the dark?


[}:)]

Been there. Done that. Nothing to report. I was perfectly safe.

You continue to be a bald-faced lying propoganda machine. Your continued fabrications prove that you're in someone's pocket. So who stands to gain the most by your lies? Most likely the Homebuilder's Association and/or one of the suburbs. Which one of them is paying you off?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

As far as I know, it's any landowner's right to do absolutely nothing with his or her holdings as long as the taxes are paid and minimum health codes / property standards are maintained.

Do you ever listen to yourself?  You are arguing that the city should REWARD do-nothings who buy up huge chunks of property for speculative purposes.  Wilson is hanging out doing nothing and hoping someone will build something nice around him.  Last I checked, that makes him part of the problem.

And FB, you should stop now with this "'hood" talk.  Greenwood is safe.  You've exposed your biases on other occasions and it's ugly.

Go for a stroll tonite after dark in the area of the proposed Ball Park.

Then, report back tomorrow if you're in one piece, and have retained your virtue.

The proposed ball park is in too close of proximity to a bad area.  

LOTS of the homeless shelter people and aid society patrons patronize the area.  

Also, it's not purely a racial issue, but gangs like to take over venues where a lot of people with wallets full of money patronize.  

And, it has an added benefit of being close to their base of operations:  The 'hood.

Everyone knows it.

But, I'm not drinking the MetroTulsaChamberPots Kool-Aid.

Are you?

The Drillers currently charge $6 for a General Admission ticket.

My prediction is if they build this unneeded stadium downtown will be a $10 per ticket minimum.

Just wait until Tulsans start seeing the BOK Arena Ticket Shock for upcoming events, following by the Drillers Downtown Stadium Ticket Shock.

Ouch!

Mrs. Kitty is such a High Maintenance Woman.

How much longer can we afford her?

Poor Mr. Lobeck.

Poor Tulsa.

[]

This is just silly.  There isn't much around the area of the proposed stadium.  I drove by on the way home from Cain's at about 12:30 AM Sunday morning.  No criminals, no gangs, nothing.  Businesses with lights off and OSU Tulsa -- that's it.

I go downtown every weekend and I've never seen a gang.  The worst thing to happen is someone asked me for change.  I told them no.  Once or twice, I saw what looked like a really bad off prostitute near that really sad block across from Deadtown.  Other than that, I've seen nothing down there, especially near "Greenwood."

The homeless shelter is a good half mile away.  I'm not happy with the shelter being down there, but that's a whole other discussion.

If gangs went wherever there was money, events like D-fest and Mayfest and all the Indian casinos wouldn't exist.  Poor logic yet again.

Uh-Uh.

I said WALK.

Driving isn't the same.

Try WALKING the same area about 11 p.m, after a theoretical downtown Drillers game could end, and you have to walk 4 lonely blocks to where you think you left your car.....

Are those footsteps behind you in the dark?


[}:)]

That's not accurate and you know it.  The development plan calls for a lot of in-fill, including the area around the stadium that is empty.

Go north a block and you are at OSU Tulsa.  Go south and you are in the Blue Dome.  There are already plenty of people walking around the Blue Dome area and the Brady District to the west -- there are a few pandhandlers, but mostly it's a younger crowd eating and drinking at the new bars and going to concerts.  

I take it you don't get out much.  Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if you heard sounds in your head a lot.

Right.  

Of course, forgot that you're going to use your Star Trek Matter Transporter to move from area to area downtown at night.

Beam me to McNellie's, Scotty.

And, HURRY!

PLLUUUEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZE!!

BEAM ME UP, FAST!

[]