A missed opportunity

[cannon_fodder]

What the hell are we doing to try and stop this!

Argh. I can't blame the companies if the city isn't working to meet their needs.  Pisses me off.

Could just be perception, but still.  This is EXACTLY what we WANT in Tulsa.  MAYOR TAYLOR, are you listening?  You've brought in a couple call centers while R&D, tech companies and engineering jobs leave town.  Please help.

[Townsend]

Anybody got a good contact email for some of the folks that might be able to make a difference? If so, have you been sending these links?  It's all I can suggest.

This is an edit so I don't sound like I'm being a complaining little girly man.  I'm afraid my attempts to be constructive in this field would be lacking.  All I can think to do is tell on 'em.  "Madam Mayor, look at what their doing."  It's all I've got.

[Conan71]

I can think of several good reasons to locate in NE OK instead of the Denver area:

1)Exisiting C-P operations in Ponca and B'Ville which consist of a large refinery, IT and accounting offices, AND a large R & D campus on the west side of Bartlesville.  

2)Locating somewhere around Ramona offers equal growth opportunity to B'ville, Tulsa, Owasso, Collinsville, Skiatook, and possibly even Nowata.  I'm trying to think of living areas within a 30 to 45 minute commute.  That would be a fairly nice hub and spoke arrangement.  Boat loads of space to expand in that area.  Build light rail running from Downtown Tulsa to B'Ville with a major station at the C-P facility.

3)Natural resources, FAIK, within a 250 mile radius our region can support a variety of agriculture stocks for alt liquid fuels, huge natural gas reserves, and the sugar industry could be revived along the gulf coast for ethanol.

4)There are pretty good energy programs at TU, OSU, and OU.  Could be a draw with KU and KSU as well.  Create job demand and rewarding income, and more people will go into a field.  Willing to bet T. Boone would pull his pants down to fund more professorships in energy for OSU, given the proper motivation.

Now, here's probably why they picked Denver-

1)Front Range Colorado is easy to recruit to, even if they do have a bad smog problem and real estate is more expensive there than here.  You can't beat the scenery and climate.  

2)Smog problem- Colorado has been forward-thinking in reducing their smog problems by providing incentives to large fossil fuel users to go with alternatives.  Case-in-point which I'm familiar with:  The state of Colorado gave a large construction company who burned in excess of 5000 gal of diesel a day in their equipment tax incentives to burn bio-diesel.  They built their own bio-d plant and sell off the excess they don't use.

3)Already has a reputation as a high-tech and research mecca.  That really got a push in the 1990's when tax and property sitations in California caused lots of high-tech to relocate anywhere from Ft. Collins to Col. Springs.  IOW- they are seen already as an alt-fuel friendly state.

Oklahoma has been pretty good to the energy industry over the years, somehow these folks in Houston have forgotten. [V]

[wagebo]

You all keep talking about streets...  Stop it!!!  it's maddening.  Sure the streets suck here but they can be fixed in my lifetime.  However Tulsa has a bigger problem and that is there is nothing to do...  You can't fix that overnight so Tulsa should have started working on that in the 90's.  As for me it's too late.  Anything you do now to fix this place won't be avilable for me to enjoy until I'm too old to do so.  That is why I'm leaving and going to a place that has what I'm looking for now...

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by wagebo

However Tulsa has a bigger problem and that is there is nothing to do...

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by wagebo

You all keep talking about streets...  Stop it!!!  it's maddening.  Sure the streets suck here but they can be fixed in my lifetime.  However Tulsa has a bigger problem and that is there is nothing to do...  You can't fix that overnight so Tulsa should have started working on that in the 90's.  As for me it's too late.  Anything you do now to fix this place won't be avilable for me to enjoy until I'm too old to do so.  That is why I'm leaving and going to a place that has what I'm looking for now...

Bye, Bye. Have a wonderful time/life.

It's odd, though, 'cause I find plenty of fun things to do and most times don't need to cross a curb.

[wagebo]

I'd like to know what there is to do here that doesn't require me to drive my car all over creation.  I currently live on Cherry Street.  Lets see...  There are some bars, not my thing; some restaurants, some antique stores...  That's about it.  Other than that I'd have to drive somewhere.  I can't walk out my door and go shopping, to a movie or much of anything else.  There's no public area for me to take my lunch to and hang out.  The selection is horrible.  Also with so many cars careening down 15th it's hard to cross, plus, unless you're there at lunch time you'll be just about the only person walking anywhere.  I don't consider that walkable since part of it being walkable is the safety you get from the number of other people walking too.  As it is I'm just ripe for a mugging with no one to see what happened.

[TURobY]

Not into bars? Try going to one of the dozen community theatre events going on around town. Or the PAC. Or festivals.

Not your cup of tea? Try the numerous art galleries around town. Or museums. We have enough galleries and travelling art shows that you really could make a weekly thing of it and keep things fresh.

You're right that you can't walk everywhere in this city. There are very few cities where you can get everything you need just by walking and even in New York people still have to take taxis and mass transit. But there are alternative modes of transportation.

I live within walking distance of TU and can easily get cheap-to-free entertainment (theatre, sports, art, lectures). I work within biking distance of downtown and can easily get to my place of employment. I have plenty of friends so that I can carpool to the AMC movie theatre.

Sorry, but I can't empathize with your pain...

[unknown]

Well, this thread has derailed.

Might want to make another post wagebo. Anyways to answer your rant...you can easily walk from your place to utica square with ease. You may not like to drive, but you can get to anwyhere in tulsa in about 10-15 minutes with plenty of parking, but I'm sorry you have problems walking in one of the most walkable areas of the ciyt[]

[wagebo]

Problem is I've been to all the art museums, both of them, not much going on there...  next the PAC...  yes if I felt like dressing up and spending the weekend going to show I could but then I wouldn't be able to work.  I work Fri, Sat and Sun at night.  I'm a nurse.  It would be nice to have something to do during the other 4 days of the week, you know when I live my life.  I moved to Tulsa 2 years ago almost to the day, Aug. 11, 2206.  I moved back here from Norman/OKC where I went to school for ~11 years.  I came back here b/c when I left Tulsa it was a great place to live and there were things to do all the time.  Things have certainly changed and not in a good way.  Tulsa could also benefit from having some institutions of higher education that don't cost 30K a semester and that offer something more than a bachelors.  The limited selection here make me mour for Tulsa b/c I've always felt so highly of this place.  

You think I'm just bashing it.  But it's only out of love for a place I once called home and had hopped to do once I got out of school.

[TURobY]

It is rare that I can't find something to do, even on a weeknight. There are still sporting events, lectures all around town, art galleries, and all of these things are improving year-to-year.

I was still in high school 11 years ago, so I can't say how much has improved since then. However, I can tell you that based on my experience being an adult that things have certainly improved in the past 6 years. Even as recent as two years ago, I was questioning my decision to stay in Tulsa. But as time continues, I see things improving, albeit slowly. Sometimes painstakingly slow.

[wagebo]

Well you think I've derailed the discussion buts it's all part and parcel...  Just like me, no one wants to come here to work and businesses know that.  They look at what this place has to offer and outside of a a booming church market there isn't much.  People who have invested years and lots of money in their own education want more out of life than this city can offer at this time.  Maybe things will change but until that's done Tulsa will continue to miss those opportunities.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by wagebo

Well you think I've derailed the discussion buts it's all part and parcel...  Just like me, no one wants to come here to work and businesses know that.  They look at what this place has to offer and outside of a a booming church market there isn't much.  People who have invested years and lots of money in their own education want more out of life than this city can offer at this time.  Maybe things will change but until that's done Tulsa will continue to miss those opportunities.

Ah, now we get to the bottom of why this rant was directed to this thread.

Hate to tell you this, but you suffer from a form of myopia that will likely make other places look sucky as well after awhile.

A city is what you make of it.  Maybe you aren't cut out for an oasis on the prairie.  Hit the mountains or a coastal area, those places get boring after awhile as well.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by wagebo

Well you think I've derailed the discussion buts it's all part and parcel...  Just like me, no one wants to come here to work and businesses know that.  They look at what this place has to offer and outside of a a booming church market there isn't much.  People who have invested years and lots of money in their own education want more out of life than this city can offer at this time.  Maybe things will change but until that's done Tulsa will continue to miss those opportunities.

Ah, now we get to the bottom of why this rant was directed to this thread.

Hate to tell you this, but you suffer from a form of myopia that will likely make other places look sucky as well after awhile.

A city is what you make of it.  Maybe you aren't cut out for an oasis on the prairie.  Hit the mountains or a coastal area, those places get boring after awhile as well.

And I know that out of experience - I lived in Houston (Metro population about 5 million) for three years.  I was bored after just one.  I was a lot younger, too.

I would bet, if you have family interests here and don't have a better half that has a vested interest elsewhere that you'll return.  I did.  All that 'fun stuff' just becomes boring after a while.  Especially when you start to factor in 90 minute commute times, pollution that makes Tulsa's Ozone problem look like a miniscule factory and the threat of drive-by shootings, and hearing at least one gunshot every night before you fall asleep.  But if all that sounds like fun to you, then by all means, don't come back.

[TheArtist]

There is one difference though... people from around here, and other places, DO consider moving to places like Austin, Denver, Seattle, etc. but do young, creative class, people from other places consider Tulsa? If not, why not?  

Actually had someone in another forum when they saw my post and my location saying I was from Tulsa, mention that they had had several "headhunter" offers from companies in Tulsa trying to get him to move here. He said "no thanks, wouldn't want to live in Tulsa". I didnt ask, but I bet an offer from a similar company in one of those other cities would more likely get a yes.

It still seems to me that Tulsa has a bad "image" problem. Especially as far as the young, highly educated, YP, creative class, worker types go.  And part of that is based in reality.

But then I go back to the fact that Tulsa really is a small city compared to those other places and, regardless of how it happened, we dont have the oil companies to bail us out anymore. So we cant expect TOO much from ourselves. But we can and should be doing a lot better imo.

We still have a lot of positives going for us. And the image problem does need to be addressed. One thing about "image" and "reality".  As a man thinketh... or in this case could it be...As a city thinketh?  

For instance, Tulsa shouldnt just have commercials that show Philbrook, the indian statue in front of Gilcrease, the art-deco, Utica Square and all that kind of "boring old people" crap. Nice to have all those things, and yes some young people like them too, but they dont create a hip image, or even a stand out attractive one compared to other cities.

I would like to see commercials, magazine adverts, websites, etc. showing images of D-Fest, Tulsa Tough, people biking running and rollerblading playing soccer and vball along the river, a night shot up the canyon of Boston Ave, inside the glass blowing studio, some art galleries, the new arena, some cool graffiti art murals.  Show Tulsa as a fresh, funky, lively, hip, urban, city.

Illusion is very powerful, even in the face of a reality that isnt all its cracked up to be. (its not as though the city is all Philbrook and art-deco either) Funny thing though, once people start to actually have the image of Tulsa being a certain way, you will likely find that Tulsa will become more that way. Perception and illusion can continually reinforce and nurture what exists. Good, bad or indifferent. Fun or boring.

This isnt a cure all, but its a comparatively simple and easy thing the city should be doing that would go a looooooooong way towards creating an attractive, and competitive, image for our city.