Tulsa History Repeats Itself - Again?

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Originally posted by Gold

Again, you made the initial asertion that Manhattan needed the money.  Are you really this stupid?  Or are you just lazy to read what you already wrote?  Maybe you forgot.  I gave you a link that shows Manhattan appears to have plenty of business around the country.  That's more than your lie about their balance sheet.  Bottom line: you made the assertion and you are a total coward about proving it.

You run people off with terrible logic like this.  It's no fun to have a conversation when the jerk, who doesn't live in Tulsa, just makes stuff up for the sake of attention.  You're like John C. Reilly's character in Boogue Nights -- someone says something, you lie about whatever they said.  

Example:
Poster: There is night life downtown.
FB:  No there isn't.  There is nothing down there.

It's just stupid.  You clearly don't know what  you are talking about.  And in the process you ruin a lot of the conversation on here.  We can't go anywhere if you keep throwing this crap out.

And you basically admit that point by going back to your Banana Rerpublic crap.  No one learns anything from you, FB -- none of what you say is true.  It's a farce.  They learn from the responses.

You don't live in Tulsa.  You don't what you are talking about.  You suck at life.

[}:)

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Originally posted by Gold

Again, you made the initial asertion that Manhattan needed the money.  Are you really this stupid?  Or are you just lazy to read what you already wrote?  Maybe you forgot.  I gave you a link that shows Manhattan appears to have plenty of business around the country.  That's more than your lie about their balance sheet.  Bottom line: you made the assertion and you are a total coward about proving it.

You run people off with terrible logic like this.  It's no fun to have a conversation when the jerk, who doesn't live in Tulsa, just makes stuff up for the sake of attention.  You're like John C. Reilly's character in Boogue Nights -- someone says something, you lie about whatever they said.  

Example:
Poster: There is night life downtown.
FB:  No there isn't.  There is nothing down there.

It's just stupid.  You clearly don't know what  you are talking about.  And in the process you ruin a lot of the conversation on here.  We can't go anywhere if you keep throwing this crap out.

And you basically admit that point by going back to your Banana Rerpublic crap.  No one learns anything from you, FB -- none of what you say is true.  It's a farce.  They learn from the responses.

You don't live in Tulsa.  You don't what you are talking about.  You suck at life.

[}:)

Isn't Cash Flow related to a company's Income Statement?

You referred to their Balance Sheet.

Sorry, that's Accounting 101.

Guess you missed that class.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Isn't Cash Flow related to a company's Income Statement?

You referred to their Balance Sheet.

Sorry, that's Accounting 101.

Guess you missed that class.

That has nothing to with anything.  You said they needed the money.  I asked you to support the point.  You can't.  Like everything else you spew on here.

You are such a pathetic man.  You can't make a cogent point.  You lie about where you live and your career.  You refuse to support your points.  You say completely hateful comments that are disruptive to the conversation.

And all you are left with is a cheap shot personal attack that doesn't mean anything.  So what?  You made an assertion about their finances that you can't support; not I.

You are a vile man and I hope bad things happen to you; but, I'm pretty sure they did a long time ago, because that's the only way someone becomes this much of an aho.

[:X]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

You didn't answer any of my questions nor direct attention to my other areas of concern.  I did not attack you in any personal way what-so-ever and the insinuation is a pathetic attempt to avoid all the valid issues I raise in your arguments.  I pointed out how and why your arguments are weak and asked you to clarify - that is not a personal attack.

I keep trying to give you an avenue to get back in the discussion on a meaningful level.  Instead you dig your hole deeper and deeper.  

You're argument has now changed to:

1) The stadium plan is too expensive and Jenks won't fund it.  

We are left to assume that we are then to reject the Driller's plan, rely on Jenks to reject the tax proposal, assume no other funding goes through and no other offers come to the table, and then accept the current facility as adequate.

Even after I fill in your argument for you, it's still weak.  

2) You then switch gears and argue:

Our streets suck, fix them first!

Which is in essence a straw man argument you have used for everything.  BOk Center, River, and now a new stadium. The argument address none the issues involved in THIS transaction and is again, weak.
- - -

Please go back and try to address the litany of issues I raised.  I am being perfectly reasonable here.  It might help to jot down your arguments and phrase them in an organized manner.  Maybe numbered with paragraphs for explanations?

Bringing new and different points into the stream of a Political Forum dialogue is hardly changing the subject.

If you're making the rules here, and a point by point discussion WITHOUT additional points added or extended is against you're rules, then by all means, cite me in violation of CannonFodder's rules.

On June 28, I did in fact on this Political forum list 10 reasons that the Stadium was not good public policy.

Remember?  Here they are:

1) The current Driller stadium is PAID FOR.

Debt-free. That is a wonderful, strategic position for a government facility.

Paid for by nouveau riche Oil Racketeer (and convicted Federal felon) Robert Sutton.

We just need a better class of Oil Racketeer here in Oklahoma today.

Today's new energy buccaneers like Aubrey McClendon want taxpayer-financed Corporate Welfare for their professional sports franchises. He and his plutocrat cronies are getting $180 MILLION dollars of the taxpayer's money to move a basketball team he owns to Oklahoma City.

2) Driller Stadium is a perfectly adequate baseball field.

It has lights.

It has good, sanitary, concessions.

It has functioning relatively clean, indoor bathrooms.

It has a scoreboard. Actually, a pretty good scoreboard.

It has box seats available for the local Patricians, so they won't be directly exposed to the local Peons.

3) The current stadium which seats over 10,000 is rarely full. When there is a big ticket promotion with Free Q-T tickets, or $1.00 beer nite, they fill up the stadium with 10,000 fans, or more.

Usually, there are 3,000 - 5,000 dedicated fans who regularly turn out.

The new stadium is reported to have only 6,200 seats. Tiny compared to Driller stadium.

4) SAFE, free parking is right next to the current Driller stadium, within easy walking distance.

It may NOT be either safe or free in the 'hood where Mrs. Kitty wants to build a new stadium.

5) It is more or less centrally located for fans to access via the Broken Arrow Expressway, and just 2.5 miles away from Tulsa's center of gravity.

A downtown stadium is even further from Tulsa's center of gravity at 41st and Yale.

6) Driller Stadium is not located right next to an oil refinery, a 6 lane expressway, or the 'hood.

7) If team owner Mr. Lamebrain wants to take his team and move, that's his right. He has only a year-to-year lease on Driller Stadium.

We can easily find another team.

When our original AAA Tulsa Oilers moved to New Orleans, they were promptly replaced by the AA Tulsa Drillers. The door didn't even bump their butts.

There is a market for our AA-AAA baseball franchise in Tulsa. Not a great market. But, one that year in and year out brings about 3,000 - 5,000 fans out on any given home game.

9) And, the real money is made off of the concessions. People spend $6.00 on a ticket, and $20+ on concessions, souvenirs, etc.

I'm not sure Mr. Lamebrain really wants competition for food and drink sales from the Blue Dome or Brady Districts.

Hmmmmh?

10) Wonder if this proposed stadium deal is making him money on the construction side?

Will he be a silent partner with the local construction cabal?

Likely JV name? Tulsa Stadium Builders?

I'm waiting to hear the stadium promoters offer their selling points.

BATTER-UP!

Remember?

Of course, the usual reaction to a point-by-point discussion is that a Forum dissenter will then Cherry-Pick answers to the comments that they prefer to respond to.

Or, give a generalized response against specific comments.

It's a debating tactic.  

Whether it is fair or meets the CannonFodder posting requirements will be left to the viewership.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


Bringing new and different points into the stream of a Political Forum dialogue is hardly changing the subject.

If you're making the rules here, and a point by point discussion WITHOUT additional points added or extended is against you're rules, then by all means, cite me in violation of CannonFodder's rules.

On June 28, I did in fact on this Political forum list 10 reasons that the Stadium was not good public policy.

Remember?  Here they are:

1) The current Driller stadium is PAID FOR.

Debt-free. That is a wonderful, strategic position for a government facility.

Paid for by nouveau riche Oil Racketeer (and convicted Federal felon) Robert Sutton.

We just need a better class of Oil Racketeer here in Oklahoma today.

Today's new energy buccaneers like Aubrey McClendon want taxpayer-financed Corporate Welfare for their professional sports franchises. He and his plutocrat cronies are getting $180 MILLION dollars of the taxpayer's money to move a basketball team he owns to Oklahoma City.

2) Driller Stadium is a perfectly adequate baseball field.

It has lights.

It has good, sanitary, concessions.

It has functioning relatively clean, indoor bathrooms.

It has a scoreboard. Actually, a pretty good scoreboard.

It has box seats available for the local Patricians, so they won't be directly exposed to the local Peons.

3) The current stadium which seats over 10,000 is rarely full. When there is a big ticket promotion with Free Q-T tickets, or $1.00 beer nite, they fill up the stadium with 10,000 fans, or more.

Usually, there are 3,000 - 5,000 dedicated fans who regularly turn out.

The new stadium is reported to have only 6,200 seats. Tiny compared to Driller stadium.

4) SAFE, free parking is right next to the current Driller stadium, within easy walking distance.

It may NOT be either safe or free in the 'hood where Mrs. Kitty wants to build a new stadium.

5) It is more or less centrally located for fans to access via the Broken Arrow Expressway, and just 2.5 miles away from Tulsa's center of gravity.

A downtown stadium is even further from Tulsa's center of gravity at 41st and Yale.

6) Driller Stadium is not located right next to an oil refinery, a 6 lane expressway, or the 'hood.

7) If team owner Mr. Lamebrain wants to take his team and move, that's his right. He has only a year-to-year lease on Driller Stadium.

We can easily find another team.

When our original AAA Tulsa Oilers moved to New Orleans, they were promptly replaced by the AA Tulsa Drillers. The door didn't even bump their butts.

There is a market for our AA-AAA baseball franchise in Tulsa. Not a great market. But, one that year in and year out brings about 3,000 - 5,000 fans out on any given home game.

9) And, the real money is made off of the concessions. People spend $6.00 on a ticket, and $20+ on concessions, souvenirs, etc.

I'm not sure Mr. Lamebrain really wants competition for food and drink sales from the Blue Dome or Brady Districts.

Hmmmmh?

10) Wonder if this proposed stadium deal is making him money on the construction side?

Will he be a silent partner with the local construction cabal?

Likely JV name? Tulsa Stadium Builders?

I'm waiting to hear the stadium promoters offer their selling points.

BATTER-UP!

Remember?

Of course, the usual reaction to a point-by-point discussion is that a Forum dissenter will then Cherry-Pick answers to the comments that they prefer to respond to.

Or, give a generalized response against specific comments.

It's a debating tactic.  

Whether it is fair or meets the CannonFodder posting requirements will be left to the viewership.

The vast majority of the viewership also thinks you are a joke.  Yoo-hoo -- pretty much everyone is telling you how stupid you are.

All those points were specifically addressed.

You have proven yourself an idiot numerous times, with no ability to support your argument with basic facts about downtown.  You just don't know what you are talking about.  You said it before, but saying it again and again doesn't make it true.  You were stupid then and you are stupid now.  Give yourself a cookie.

[}:)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


Bringing new and different points into the stream of a Political Forum dialogue is hardly changing the subject.

If you're making the rules here, and a point by point discussion WITHOUT additional points added or extended is against you're rules, then by all means, cite me in violation of CannonFodder's rules.

On June 28, I did in fact on this Political forum list 10 reasons that the Stadium was not good public policy.

Remember?  Here they are:

1) The current Driller stadium is PAID FOR.

Debt-free. That is a wonderful, strategic position for a government facility.

Paid for by nouveau riche Oil Racketeer (and convicted Federal felon) Robert Sutton.

We just need a better class of Oil Racketeer here in Oklahoma today.

Today's new energy buccaneers like Aubrey McClendon want taxpayer-financed Corporate Welfare for their professional sports franchises. He and his plutocrat cronies are getting $180 MILLION dollars of the taxpayer's money to move a basketball team he owns to Oklahoma City.

2) Driller Stadium is a perfectly adequate baseball field.

It has lights.

It has good, sanitary, concessions.

It has functioning relatively clean, indoor bathrooms.

It has a scoreboard. Actually, a pretty good scoreboard.

It has box seats available for the local Patricians, so they won't be directly exposed to the local Peons.

3) The current stadium which seats over 10,000 is rarely full. When there is a big ticket promotion with Free Q-T tickets, or $1.00 beer nite, they fill up the stadium with 10,000 fans, or more.

Usually, there are 3,000 - 5,000 dedicated fans who regularly turn out.

The new stadium is reported to have only 6,200 seats. Tiny compared to Driller stadium.

4) SAFE, free parking is right next to the current Driller stadium, within easy walking distance.

It may NOT be either safe or free in the 'hood where Mrs. Kitty wants to build a new stadium.

5) It is more or less centrally located for fans to access via the Broken Arrow Expressway, and just 2.5 miles away from Tulsa's center of gravity.

A downtown stadium is even further from Tulsa's center of gravity at 41st and Yale.

6) Driller Stadium is not located right next to an oil refinery, a 6 lane expressway, or the 'hood.

7) If team owner Mr. Lamebrain wants to take his team and move, that's his right. He has only a year-to-year lease on Driller Stadium.

We can easily find another team.

When our original AAA Tulsa Oilers moved to New Orleans, they were promptly replaced by the AA Tulsa Drillers. The door didn't even bump their butts.

There is a market for our AA-AAA baseball franchise in Tulsa. Not a great market. But, one that year in and year out brings about 3,000 - 5,000 fans out on any given home game.

9) And, the real money is made off of the concessions. People spend $6.00 on a ticket, and $20+ on concessions, souvenirs, etc.

I'm not sure Mr. Lamebrain really wants competition for food and drink sales from the Blue Dome or Brady Districts.

Hmmmmh?

10) Wonder if this proposed stadium deal is making him money on the construction side?

Will he be a silent partner with the local construction cabal?

Likely JV name? Tulsa Stadium Builders?

I'm waiting to hear the stadium promoters offer their selling points.

BATTER-UP!

Remember?

Of course, the usual reaction to a point-by-point discussion is that a Forum dissenter will then Cherry-Pick answers to the comments that they prefer to respond to.

Or, give a generalized response against specific comments.

It's a debating tactic.  

Whether it is fair or meets the CannonFodder posting requirements will be left to the viewership.

The vast majority of the viewership also thinks you are a joke.  Yoo-hoo -- pretty much everyone is telling you how stupid you are.

All those points were specifically addressed.

You have proven yourself an idiot numerous times, with no ability to support your argument with basic facts about downtown.  You just don't know what you are talking about.  You said it before, but saying it again and again doesn't make it true.  You were stupid then and you are stupid now.  Give yourself a cookie.

[}:)]

It was you who asserted that Manhattan has no Cash Flow problems.

I asked:

How do you know?

Regarding their list of active projects, competitively bid projects likely have a smaller, tighter profit margin for them.

Different than nice, juicy local Oklahoma Title 60 Public Trust contracts awarded NON-COMPETITIVELY, wouldn't you think?

Even you should know that without the pressures of the competitive market place applied through competitive bidding, margins will tend to rise.

Because there is NO MARKETPLACE DISCIPLINE.

That's why Flintco and RooneyCo LOVE Oklahoma government building projects, especially Title 60 Public Trusts.

How HANDY!

[:O]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


Bringing new and different points into the stream of a Political Forum dialogue is hardly changing the subject.

If you're making the rules here, and a point by point discussion WITHOUT additional points added or extended is against you're rules, then by all means, cite me in violation of CannonFodder's rules.

On June 28, I did in fact on this Political forum list 10 reasons that the Stadium was not good public policy.

Remember?  Here they are:

1) The current Driller stadium is PAID FOR.

Debt-free. That is a wonderful, strategic position for a government facility.

Paid for by nouveau riche Oil Racketeer (and convicted Federal felon) Robert Sutton.

We just need a better class of Oil Racketeer here in Oklahoma today.

Today's new energy buccaneers like Aubrey McClendon want taxpayer-financed Corporate Welfare for their professional sports franchises. He and his plutocrat cronies are getting $180 MILLION dollars of the taxpayer's money to move a basketball team he owns to Oklahoma City.

2) Driller Stadium is a perfectly adequate baseball field.

It has lights.

It has good, sanitary, concessions.

It has functioning relatively clean, indoor bathrooms.

It has a scoreboard. Actually, a pretty good scoreboard.

It has box seats available for the local Patricians, so they won't be directly exposed to the local Peons.

3) The current stadium which seats over 10,000 is rarely full. When there is a big ticket promotion with Free Q-T tickets, or $1.00 beer nite, they fill up the stadium with 10,000 fans, or more.

Usually, there are 3,000 - 5,000 dedicated fans who regularly turn out.

The new stadium is reported to have only 6,200 seats. Tiny compared to Driller stadium.

4) SAFE, free parking is right next to the current Driller stadium, within easy walking distance.

It may NOT be either safe or free in the 'hood where Mrs. Kitty wants to build a new stadium.

5) It is more or less centrally located for fans to access via the Broken Arrow Expressway, and just 2.5 miles away from Tulsa's center of gravity.

A downtown stadium is even further from Tulsa's center of gravity at 41st and Yale.

6) Driller Stadium is not located right next to an oil refinery, a 6 lane expressway, or the 'hood.

7) If team owner Mr. Lamebrain wants to take his team and move, that's his right. He has only a year-to-year lease on Driller Stadium.

We can easily find another team.

When our original AAA Tulsa Oilers moved to New Orleans, they were promptly replaced by the AA Tulsa Drillers. The door didn't even bump their butts.

There is a market for our AA-AAA baseball franchise in Tulsa. Not a great market. But, one that year in and year out brings about 3,000 - 5,000 fans out on any given home game.

9) And, the real money is made off of the concessions. People spend $6.00 on a ticket, and $20+ on concessions, souvenirs, etc.

I'm not sure Mr. Lamebrain really wants competition for food and drink sales from the Blue Dome or Brady Districts.

Hmmmmh?

10) Wonder if this proposed stadium deal is making him money on the construction side?

Will he be a silent partner with the local construction cabal?

Likely JV name? Tulsa Stadium Builders?

I'm waiting to hear the stadium promoters offer their selling points.

BATTER-UP!

Remember?

Of course, the usual reaction to a point-by-point discussion is that a Forum dissenter will then Cherry-Pick answers to the comments that they prefer to respond to.

Or, give a generalized response against specific comments.

It's a debating tactic.  

Whether it is fair or meets the CannonFodder posting requirements will be left to the viewership.

The vast majority of the viewership also thinks you are a joke.  Yoo-hoo -- pretty much everyone is telling you how stupid you are.

All those points were specifically addressed.

You have proven yourself an idiot numerous times, with no ability to support your argument with basic facts about downtown.  You just don't know what you are talking about.  You said it before, but saying it again and again doesn't make it true.  You were stupid then and you are stupid now.  Give yourself a cookie.

[}:)]

Sounds like you should take a survey.

Log on to www.tulsanow.org Opinion Forum, and create an opinion poll.

Let me know your results.

I'm here because I'm a seeker after the truth.  

Others may be too.

The truth will help our citizenry more than a new downtown stadium.

[FOTD]

"Of course, the usual reaction to a point-by-point discussion is that a Forum dissenter will then Cherry-Pick answers to the comments that they prefer to respond to.

Or, give a generalized response against specific comments.

It's a debating tactic.

Whether it is fair or meets the CannonFodder posting requirements will be left to the viewership." Friendly Bear


THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!Don't fall for such Fodder.....

"For lunch I ate fast food, the blood of the wicked." Cannon Fodder


TulsaNow's Itinerant Exorcism Servicer

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

"Of course, the usual reaction to a point-by-point discussion is that a Forum dissenter will then Cherry-Pick answers to the comments that they prefer to respond to.

Or, give a generalized response against specific comments.

It's a debating tactic.

Whether it is fair or meets the CannonFodder posting requirements will be left to the viewership." Friendly Bear


THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!Don't fall for such Fodder.....

"For lunch I ate fast food, the blood of the wicked." Cannon Fodder


TulsaNow's Itinerant Exorcism Servicer

And, the Truth Shall set you Free!

[cannon_fodder]

FOTD is talking about debating tactics?  Classic.

FOTD's guide to debating:

1) Make things up (lie)
2) If asked for as source, cite to something that doesn't support your contention
3) If called out on it chance the topic
4) If called out on that, persist
- - -

If you want to "win" the debate, fine.  I was trying to have an actual and substantive discussion.  Instead I had the same crap regurgitated with no support and tactics to avoid the question at hand.  

If we are actually talking about debate, in an actual debate a protest could simply be lodged and all points lost for being non responsive (and thus a misuse of rebuttal time).  Thus, you STILL wouldn't win.

I guess that explains it, I'm trying to have a discussion - you're trying to "debate" and win.    The result is logic on one side, and avoidance, crappy sources, and halve truths on the other side.

quote:This is the truth!

What's the truth?  Because FB has posted nothing that could be declared substantive truth for a long, long time.  No evidence that the tax issues are relevant, no evidence that the Driller's didn't intend to move, nothing on Manhattan needing revenue, dead wrong on his notion of the area, he hasn't even declared that he lives in Tulsa.

He's following your tactic of "making crap up" and when called "make up more crap or change the subject."  Kudos on your avoidance skills.  But it's of no value in a discussion.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

It means at least $100K in sales tax a year to a city with a stagnat budget (probably more).  It's not a panacea and was never intended as such.  

Where do people come up with these numbers?   If we move the stadium downtown then suddenly more people will magically appear to bump up attendance numbers?

I also hear that somehow, building a new stadium will influx 200 permanent jobs and $13 million in revenues.  I just don't see why if that is the case, it isn't happening now.  

Maybe someone can tell me how they are going to get people out of the casinos and to the ballpark.   (And mind you, come up with an EXTRA $13 million because we aren't just talking about moving the revenues from one spot to another.)

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub

quote:Originally posted by Gold

It means at least $100K in sales tax a year to a city with a stagnat budget (probably more).  It's not a panacea and was never intended as such.  

Where do people come up with these numbers?   If we move the stadium downtown then suddenly more people will magically appear to bump up attendance numbers?

I also hear that somehow, building a new stadium will influx 200 permanent jobs and $13 million in revenues.  I just don't see why if that is the case, it isn't happening now.  

Maybe someone can tell me how they are going to get people out of the casinos and to the ballpark.   (And mind you, come up with an EXTRA $13 million because we aren't just talking about moving the revenues from one spot to another.)

The $100k a year number comes from the fact that a stadium downtown will generate city sales tax.  Drillers Stadium, on county property, currently doesn't.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss


The $100k a year number comes from the fact that a stadium downtown will generate city sales tax.  Drillers Stadium, on county property, currently doesn't.

Ah, finally a number that someone can actually justify.  While I will hate paying $1.09 for my $1 beers, buying beer in south Tulsa where restaurants don't bother to include liquor tax is getting me used to it.

Thanks Hoss!

[cannon_fodder]

I ignore the economic impact numbers from most of these things.  They usually are more or less made up and nearly NEVER pan-out as advertised.  They take ticket sales ignoring the fact they already existed, then add in some numbers they figure will happen, then multiple by a municipal turnover factor.  

BUT, I can see how this will bennefit the local economy by encouraging people to go out.  Catch dinner then a game.  Maybe go to the bar.  It will most likely spur new development in the area also.  It is also another piece in the puzzle for having a living downtown.  All things that will increase the tax base in addition to sale tax applying in the city limits.

It could also attract actual tourists.  I know people in Tulsa that go to the Bricktown Ballpark or Springfield for a weekend and plan on catching a game.  Just one more small piece of the puzzle, another thing to do in Tulsa.  Currently, going to a Driller's game is not that caliber of experience.

As I said before, the Fairgrounds has NO game atmosphere to it.  You show up for the game, then leave.  No ancillary things, not pretty at all.  As stated:  it's adequate to play ball in.  

I don't think it is a magic pill to boast the tax base.  I don't think anyone is arguing that as the primary reason to build the ballpark.  In the long run it could help grow the tax base as the area improves, but not as a magic pill.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub

quote:Originally posted by Gold

It means at least $100K in sales tax a year to a city with a stagnat budget (probably more).  It's not a panacea and was never intended as such.  

Where do people come up with these numbers?   If we move the stadium downtown then suddenly more people will magically appear to bump up attendance numbers?

I also hear that somehow, building a new stadium will influx 200 permanent jobs and $13 million in revenues.  I just don't see why if that is the case, it isn't happening now.  

Maybe someone can tell me how they are going to get people out of the casinos and to the ballpark.   (And mind you, come up with an EXTRA $13 million because we aren't just talking about moving the revenues from one spot to another.)

The $100k a year number comes from the fact that a stadium downtown will generate city sales tax.  Drillers Stadium, on county property, currently doesn't.

Golly Gee, at $100,000 per year in new city sales taxes collected, in only 300 years Tulsa IDL-BID District, City, and County taxpayers will recover their $30,000,000 investment.

What a DEAL!

[:O]