Tulsa History Repeats Itself - Again?

[cannon_fodder]

FB:  

Driller's stadium is adequate.  It is bought and paid for.

BUT IT'S NOT AN OPTION.

The Driller's are moving.  The question is do they move to a new ballpark in Tulsa or Jenks. That's the choice.  Period. End of story.

Your point on the existing stadium is moot.  You're just digging a hole.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FB:  

Driller's stadium is adequate.  It is bought and paid for.

BUT IT'S NOT AN OPTION.

The Driller's are moving.  The question is do they move to a new ballpark in Tulsa or Jenks. That's the choice.  Period. End of story.

Your point on the existing stadium is moot.  You're just digging a hole.

Public policy decisions may not be either Door #1 or Door #2.  Either A) or B).

We need to ask what is behind Door #3.

Tulsa County Fairgrounds Authority would be no worse off if the city did not respond to Lamson's blackmail.

Let Lamson threaten to move the team to Jenks. Call his bluff.

He's giving up a reasonable sure thing at Driller Field, for a Field of Dreams in Jenks.  If he elects to move, then let the Fairgrounds JACK his rent up 5x the current level to share the pain.

Let the Jenks residents pay for new stadium.  

$30 million apportioned among that tiny hamlet will be quite a tax bite that their voters may or may NOT approve.

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Win-Win.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

The Brady District will admittedly be proximal to the proposed Stadium.  Great.  Mr. Lamson will love you eating dinner and having drinks in the Brady District B4 you see a Drillers game.

The Brady District will be a COMPETITOR to Mr. Lamson.

Nice try, except for the fact that the food offered in the surrounding area doesn't exactly serve the same fare as the ballpark. Can you name a restaurant in the Brady District or Blue Dome that serves a hot dog or peanuts or cracker-jacks?

At my last Drillers game, although I had the heart-burn-Driller Dog, I did see hamburgers, nachos, and Mazzios Pizza on the menu.  

Along with Beer.

Common items sold as well in the Brady District.

I expect that the Brady District will benefit from the Drillers games more than the Drillers/Lamson will benefit from being proximal to the Brady District.

We'll soon see............in 2010.

Why post if you don't know what you are talking about?

Where is the Mazzio's in the Brady district?

Or the pizza for that matter?

Or the nachos? (Granted, Mexicali has nachos, but they aren't the same thing).

But, you know what, that's true of all the ballparks mentioned above.

FB is clueless.

Poor FB.

[:O]

Well, in the interest of continuing the discussion of public policy regarding the stadium, let's define Nacho:  

A corn chip with melted cheese and/or browned, chopped mystery meat with a slice of Jalapeno pepper for flavor.

Pizza is the operative menu item discussed above, to further advance this lofty public policy discussion.  

Not the MAZZIOS Pizza.

Pizza.

I'm not aware of any Mazzios Restaurants in the Brady District.  With the stadium coming downtown, we can expect several probably.  Mr. Lamson will love that.

Gee, I didn't know you were an EXPERT on every restaurant that sold Pizza downtown?

Doesn't Spaghetti Warehouse actually serve Pizza?

221 East Brady.

What "district" is the Spaghetti Warehouse located?

Sounds like....

Grady?

Shady?

Cady?

Brady?

[:X]

You lose.  

So sorry.

Thanks for playing.

Spaghetti Warehouse pretty much sucks.  But, it has stayed in busines.  

Lamson knows it is there.  Why would he move next door if he was worried about S'getti Warehouse?

The nachos you get at a Drillers game are just not the same thing that you get at a Mexican establishment.  The only reason I say that is that you appear to have never had nachos outside of Oiler Park in 1975.

Anyway, your argument on this is really poor.  The model has worked all over the country.  You have no counter-examples.  Lamson is hardly being forced to move downtown.

So, you're wrong.

Didn't get it right.

Way off base.

Incorrect.

You lose.

False.

Fail.

No.

[:O]

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FB:  

Driller's stadium is adequate.  It is bought and paid for.

BUT IT'S NOT AN OPTION.

The Driller's are moving.  The question is do they move to a new ballpark in Tulsa or Jenks. That's the choice.  Period. End of story.

Your point on the existing stadium is moot.  You're just digging a hole.

Public policy decisions may not be either Door #1 or Door #2.  Either A) or B).

We need to ask what is behind Door #3.

Tulsa County Fairgrounds Authority would be no worse off if the city did not respond to Lamson's blackmail.

Let Lamson threaten to move the team to Jenks. Call his bluff.

He's giving up a reasonable sure thing at Driller Field, for a Field of Dreams in Jenks.  If he elects to move, then let the Fairgrounds JACK his rent up 5x the current level to share the pain.

Let the Jenks residents pay for new stadium.  

$30 million apportioned among that tiny hamlet will be quite a tax bite that their voters may or may NOT approve.

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Win-Win.

You have been proven wrong here as well.

There was a real risk that the team would go to Jenks.

Along with its sales tax.

All your regurgitated incorrect argument does is prove that you don't know tack taco about Tulsa.

Give it up.

You're wrong.

[:O]

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

In that case, there is a Taco Cabana located nearby the current Driller's stadium. They serve nachos, don't they? And Target has pretzels and popcorn. They even sell peanuts. Lowe's has a hot dog stand in the parking lot.

It's a shame that there is so much competition. How will they ever survive?

Ritz has beer and better table dances.

[]

[TURobY]

Did anyone catch this?

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Now we know why Pooh-Bear wants the Drillers to move to Jenks. We also know why he also opposes any development downtown, midtown, or elsewhere in the city.

His intentions aren't honorable as he would like other posters to believe. His arguments are purely based on the fact of convenience to him.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

The Brady District will admittedly be proximal to the proposed Stadium.  Great.  Mr. Lamson will love you eating dinner and having drinks in the Brady District B4 you see a Drillers game.

The Brady District will be a COMPETITOR to Mr. Lamson.

Nice try, except for the fact that the food offered in the surrounding area doesn't exactly serve the same fare as the ballpark. Can you name a restaurant in the Brady District or Blue Dome that serves a hot dog or peanuts or cracker-jacks?

At my last Drillers game, although I had the heart-burn-Driller Dog, I did see hamburgers, nachos, and Mazzios Pizza on the menu.  

Along with Beer.

Common items sold as well in the Brady District.

I expect that the Brady District will benefit from the Drillers games more than the Drillers/Lamson will benefit from being proximal to the Brady District.

We'll soon see............in 2010.

Why post if you don't know what you are talking about?

Where is the Mazzio's in the Brady district?

Or the pizza for that matter?

Or the nachos? (Granted, Mexicali has nachos, but they aren't the same thing).

But, you know what, that's true of all the ballparks mentioned above.

FB is clueless.

Poor FB.

[:O]

Well, in the interest of continuing the discussion of public policy regarding the stadium, let's define Nacho:  

A corn chip with melted cheese and/or browned, chopped mystery meat with a slice of Jalapeno pepper for flavor.

Pizza is the operative menu item discussed above, to further advance this lofty public policy discussion.  

Not the MAZZIOS Pizza.

Pizza.

I'm not aware of any Mazzios Restaurants in the Brady District.  With the stadium coming downtown, we can expect several probably.  Mr. Lamson will love that.

Gee, I didn't know you were an EXPERT on every restaurant that sold Pizza downtown?

Doesn't Spaghetti Warehouse actually serve Pizza?

221 East Brady.

What "district" is the Spaghetti Warehouse located?

Sounds like....

Grady?

Shady?

Cady?

Brady?

[:X]

You lose.  

So sorry.

Thanks for playing.

Spaghetti Warehouse pretty much sucks.  But, it has stayed in busines.  

Lamson knows it is there.  Why would he move next door if he was worried about S'getti Warehouse?

The nachos you get at a Drillers game are just not the same thing that you get at a Mexican establishment.  The only reason I say that is that you appear to have never had nachos outside of Oiler Park in 1975.

Anyway, your argument on this is really poor.  The model has worked all over the country.  You have no counter-examples.  Lamson is hardly being forced to move downtown.

So, you're wrong.

Didn't get it right.

Way off base.

Incorrect.

You lose.

False.

Fail.

No.

[:O]

Mr. Lamson's business model is not based on simply selling tickets.  Tickets for general admission are priced low to get the crowd in so they'll eat and drink from the concessions.

Mr. Lamson will be surrounded by competitors in a downtown stadium.  He'll be WORSE off unless:

1)  He raises ticket prices. That will REDUCE demand for tickets.

2)  He's in on the construction deal, like a limited partnership with Manhattan.  Let's name it Stadium Builders L.P.

3)  He sells MORE seats; but he can't. This stadium will be barely 1/2 the size of Driller stadium.

Where's he gonna make the $$?

Concessions.

Okay, Goldilocks, the big bad bear will grant you a request:

You can educate yourself by reading "Field of Schemes".

It's all about the racket of sports stadium construction, and why they are a negative-gain economic model.

Available from www.amazon.com

Enjoy your education.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FB:  

Driller's stadium is adequate.  It is bought and paid for.

BUT IT'S NOT AN OPTION.

The Driller's are moving.  The question is do they move to a new ballpark in Tulsa or Jenks. That's the choice.  Period. End of story.

Your point on the existing stadium is moot.  You're just digging a hole.

Public policy decisions may not be either Door #1 or Door #2.  Either A) or B).

We need to ask what is behind Door #3.

Tulsa County Fairgrounds Authority would be no worse off if the city did not respond to Lamson's blackmail.

Let Lamson threaten to move the team to Jenks. Call his bluff.

He's giving up a reasonable sure thing at Driller Field, for a Field of Dreams in Jenks.  If he elects to move, then let the Fairgrounds JACK his rent up 5x the current level to share the pain.

Let the Jenks residents pay for new stadium.  

$30 million apportioned among that tiny hamlet will be quite a tax bite that their voters may or may NOT approve.

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Win-Win.

You have been proven wrong here as well.

There was a real risk that the team would go to Jenks.

Along with its sales tax.

All your regurgitated incorrect argument does is prove that you don't know tack taco about Tulsa.

Give it up.

You're wrong.

[:O]

Sales tax?

Goldilocks, sports tickets are exempt from Sales Taxes.  By state law.

Big fat loss.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

Did anyone catch this?

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Now we know why Pooh-Bear wants the Drillers to move to Jenks. We also know why he also opposes any development downtown, midtown, or elsewhere in the city.

His intentions aren't honorable as he would like other posters to believe. His arguments are purely based on the fact of convenience to him.

Am I your favorite poster?

Wow.

Since the geographic center of Tulsa is 41st and Yale, and NOT downtown, methinks that the downtown arena will not be convenient for the majority of citizens of Tulsa, Bixby, Jenks, Glenpool and south Broken Arrow.

I'm in GOOD company.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FB:  

Driller's stadium is adequate.  It is bought and paid for.

BUT IT'S NOT AN OPTION.

The Driller's are moving.  The question is do they move to a new ballpark in Tulsa or Jenks. That's the choice.  Period. End of story.

Your point on the existing stadium is moot.  You're just digging a hole.

Public policy decisions may not be either Door #1 or Door #2.  Either A) or B).

We need to ask what is behind Door #3.

Tulsa County Fairgrounds Authority would be no worse off if the city did not respond to Lamson's blackmail.

Let Lamson threaten to move the team to Jenks. Call his bluff.

He's giving up a reasonable sure thing at Driller Field, for a Field of Dreams in Jenks.  If he elects to move, then let the Fairgrounds JACK his rent up 5x the current level to share the pain.

Let the Jenks residents pay for new stadium.  

$30 million apportioned among that tiny hamlet will be quite a tax bite that their voters may or may NOT approve.

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Win-Win.

You have been proven wrong here as well.

There was a real risk that the team would go to Jenks.

Along with its sales tax.

All your regurgitated incorrect argument does is prove that you don't know tack taco about Tulsa.

Give it up.

You're wrong.

[:O]

Sales tax?

Goldilocks, sports tickets are exempt from Sales Taxes.  By state law.

Big fat loss.

Wrong.  Only those sports that are considered professional.  Did you not even watch the City council meeting where they discussed this at GREAT length?

How about OSU vs OU.  Those games ARE taxed.

How about merchandise?  Food?

Also, how about the fact that there will be a net gain because the new stadium is on city property, where Driller stadium is on county property and only being assessed county tax, not county AND city tax?

You're spinning your wheels now.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear
I expect that the Brady District will benefit from the Drillers games more than the Drillers/Lamson will benefit from being proximal to the Brady District.

So you think you know about his business than he does?

The Drillers are very smart business people...your argument is that he will lose money because he is near some restaurants seems ludicrous.

Have you ever been to Wrigley Park? Surrounded by bars and restauurants, yet was the first ballpark to add concession stands.

Give it up friendly bear, you don't know nothing about the baseball business or downtown Tulsa.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Am I your favorite poster?

Wow.

Only because I find those with illusions of grandeur entertaining. It's a morbid fascination of mine... []

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

In that case, there is a Taco Cabana located nearby the current Driller's stadium. They serve nachos, don't they? And Target has pretzels and popcorn. They even sell peanuts. Lowe's has a hot dog stand in the parking lot.

It's a shame that there is so much competition. How will they ever survive?

You can buy all the above at the Walgreens at 15th & Yale just outside left field.  You can even buy a small Hibachi grill, charcoal and lighter fluid.  How did the Drillers make it there so long?  Good point Rob [}:)]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

Did anyone catch this?

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Now we know why Pooh-Bear wants the Drillers to move to Jenks. We also know why he also opposes any development downtown, midtown, or elsewhere in the city.

His intentions aren't honorable as he would like other posters to believe. His arguments are purely based on the fact of convenience to him.

Am I your favorite poster?

Wow.

Since the geographic center of Tulsa is 41st and Yale, and NOT downtown, methinks that the downtown arena will not be convenient for the majority of citizens of Tulsa, Bixby, Jenks, Glenpool and south Broken Arrow.

I'm in GOOD company.

Al Jerkins told me one time that "if you paid to get into a Driller's game, you need to have your head examined."

Concessions are taxable, as well as souvenirs.  That's where the real revenue is, not the gate.  Why do you think they do so many free gate admission promotions?  To get the real revenue.

Nice try, but weak.  You are starting to wander off into the area of errors and omissions.  Do they make nuclear scientists carry EOI?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FB:  

Driller's stadium is adequate.  It is bought and paid for.

BUT IT'S NOT AN OPTION.

The Driller's are moving.  The question is do they move to a new ballpark in Tulsa or Jenks. That's the choice.  Period. End of story.

Your point on the existing stadium is moot.  You're just digging a hole.

Public policy decisions may not be either Door #1 or Door #2.  Either A) or B).

We need to ask what is behind Door #3.

Tulsa County Fairgrounds Authority would be no worse off if the city did not respond to Lamson's blackmail.

Let Lamson threaten to move the team to Jenks. Call his bluff.

He's giving up a reasonable sure thing at Driller Field, for a Field of Dreams in Jenks.  If he elects to move, then let the Fairgrounds JACK his rent up 5x the current level to share the pain.

Let the Jenks residents pay for new stadium.  

$30 million apportioned among that tiny hamlet will be quite a tax bite that their voters may or may NOT approve.

Besides, for anyone living in far south Tulsa, including your favorite poster, Jenks is actually CLOSER than the current 15th and Yale.

Win-Win.

You have been proven wrong here as well.

There was a real risk that the team would go to Jenks.

Along with its sales tax.

All your regurgitated incorrect argument does is prove that you don't know tack taco about Tulsa.

Give it up.

You're wrong.

[:O]

Sales tax?

Goldilocks, sports tickets are exempt from Sales Taxes.  By state law.

Big fat loss.

Wrong.  Only those sports that are considered professional.  Did you not even watch the City council meeting where they discussed this at GREAT length?

How about OSU vs OU.  Those games ARE taxed.

How about merchandise?  Food?

Also, how about the fact that there will be a net gain because the new stadium is on city property, where Driller stadium is on county property and only being assessed county tax, not county AND city tax?

You're spinning your wheels now.

Huh?

Driller Stadium doesn't pay any property taxes.  It is county property owned by an Authority, exempt from ad valorem taxes.

The new Driller Stadium likewise will be owned by a Title 60 Public Authority, exempt from Ad Valorem taxes, i.e. Real Estate Taxes.

The stadium authority may or may NOT be subject to the BID assessment.  I've heard yes, and also NO.

The city may collect sales taxes on concession sales and food sales.  OR, the Authority might work a different deal on concessions, such as percentage of the gross sales, and NOT impose a Sales Tax.

You simply do not know, Goldilocks.