Can Sally Bell...

[Conan71]

...fairly investigate Murphy's no-bid contract with the fair board and get to the bottom of why Bell's lease was allowed to expire?

Just as much as I believe Clark Brewster had a glaring conflict-of-interest in having any opinion or vote on the status of Bell's lease after representing a family in a civil suit against Bell's, I believe it would be a COI for Sally Bell to spearhead an investigation into fair board dealings with the Murphys.

We should get to the bottom of this for the benefit of all taxpayers, not just one jilted business owner and I believe it demands the interest and attention of all three county commissioners.  Now that a few of the principals are out of the way or on their way out, it's time to start digging.

I'm curious what others think about a potential conflict between Sally Bell and various Murphy businesses at the fairgrounds.  

I also don't know how much of a COI there could be if Bell's relocates and needs variances from the county or other favors to make it happen.  

If we are trying to keep personal interests and conflicts of interest out of public office, this should raise legitimate concerns with voters.

[shadows]

I would believe there is a conflict of interest with the Bell's/Murphy/ county commissioners/and boards composed of the county commissioners that have gotten that the "Born to Rule" belief while Sally, with the local family/fair board dealing, over the years, has the experience to blow away the smoke screen which covered these pasted flawed operations of the fair board.    

Murphy move in the rides for a 10 day stand where the Bell's furnished a carnival atmosphere, for the children, in a home grown venture, for months at of time.

You can be assured that Sally has been well educated on the operations of what the purpose of a plot of ground set aside for the benefit of the citizen of Tulsa, keeping the money for local usage.

When a voter marks their ballot, he/she decides what is best for Tulsa businesses.  The decision lie in the marker that is given to the citizen when issued a ballot.    

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

...fairly investigate Murphy's no-bid contract with the fair board and get to the bottom of why Bell's lease was allowed to expire?

Just as much as I believe Clark Brewster had a glaring conflict-of-interest in having any opinion or vote on the status of Bell's lease after representing a family in a civil suit against Bell's, I believe it would be a COI for Sally Bell to spearhead an investigation into fair board dealings with the Murphys.

We should get to the bottom of this for the benefit of all taxpayers, not just one jilted business owner and I believe it demands the interest and attention of all three county commissioners.  Now that a few of the principals are out of the way or on their way out, it's time to start digging.

I'm curious what others think about a potential conflict between Sally Bell and various Murphy businesses at the fairgrounds.  

I also don't know how much of a COI there could be if Bell's relocates and needs variances from the county or other favors to make it happen.  

If we are trying to keep personal interests and conflicts of interest out of public office, this should raise legitimate concerns with voters.

I think we should save Sally the trouble and get a grand jury convened to investigate this. I'd love to serve on that one.

[MacGyver]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

...fairly investigate Murphy's no-bid contract with the fair board and get to the bottom of why Bell's lease was allowed to expire?

Conan, The point is that the situation will be investigated if she's elected and most likely will not if she's not.

Open the books, throw off the covers, let the facts be known and let the chips fall as they may...

Any potential conflict is moot as no commisioner has any indicting or punitive authority.  But they can shed light on the problems at the fair.

M

[Conan71]

I agree, I think a grand jury is a great idea.

Sally doesn't seem to be a believer in grand juries though.  At least she wasn't when she was asked about it at the Republicans After Five meeting.  (Paraphrased from shorthand notes)

"The problem with Grand Jury they had the information to indict and they don't always do that. Not always getting results. Let's throw open the books on Rick, the horse show and do what they say. Is the Fair run properly? Are people actually working when they say they are? Grand Jury's don't always work."

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71



"The problem with Grand Jury they had the information to indict and they don't always do that. Not always getting results. Let's throw open the books on Rick, the horse show and do what they say. Is the Fair run properly? Are people actually working when they say they are? Grand Jury's don't always work."

Whaaaaa?

So she thinks she's a prosecutor now? Or a legal expert?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

quote:Originally posted by Conan71



"The problem with Grand Jury they had the information to indict and they don't always do that. Not always getting results. Let's throw open the books on Rick, the horse show and do what they say. Is the Fair run properly? Are people actually working when they say they are? Grand Jury's don't always work."

Whaaaaa?

So she thinks she's a prosecutor now? Or a legal expert?

No, probably just a Realist.

[RecycleMichael]

I have a problem with her saying "Let's throw open the books..." about Big Splash and the fairgrounds operations while refusing to let us see her books.

Why does she refuse to let us see the business plan that she submitted to the Expo Square board? It is one of the only documents that she ever had with a public authority and she refuses to let us see it. Is she embarassed by her business plan? Is the amusement park business so top secret that hundreds of us will take it and open up our own amusement parks?

How can she be the candidate for openness if she won't be open about her own documents?

[Conan71]

Hmmm, that's an interesting point RM.

I guess I'm troubled by some conflicting philosophies I'm starting to see emerge.  Sally is about lower taxes and limiting government involvement, yet Bell's essentially benefitted from a rent subsidy from a public trust when they went from paying $257K in rent to $130K the next year, yet they did $700K in ride improvements and were preparing to buy another $700 to $750K ride when the lease was allowed to expire.  Those rides would be wholly-owned assets of Bell Enterprises when paid off, not the property of county taxpayers.  Seems like a break on rent would help make payments on improvements.

As I also seem to recall, when Bell's first started looking at relocating, they were talking to other cities before they were going to talk to other developers.  I don't know what the point would be in that unless they were needing some sort of tax break or public funding to help re-build the park.

Far as I know, Bell's only paid property tax on the improvements to the land, not the land itself since the county owned the land the park sat on.  That was another perk thanks to a public trust.

Just seems contradictory to me.  Accept tax-payer supported perks when it's providing a means, reject the system when running for office.

If I'm off-base on the benefits Bell's got from renting from the Fairgrounds, someone please feel free to correct me.

[RecycleMichael]

Excellent points, Conan.

It appears there are two Sally Bells.

One is a businesswoman wants public subsidy and one is a candidate who is against them.

I understand the difference. She now has a different point of view.

[Gold]

Interesting thread and interesting points.  Thanks for the read.  I think Keith is a no-brainer for November, but I look forward to some of the silly things the tinfoil hat crowd will say.

[Wrinkle]

It's not so much a question as to whether Keith is a good person or good administrator, she very likely is. For sure, she's very likeable and well known as such.

The question is whether we want the County and the Fair grounds run by the same old bunch who's been doing it for decades or a fresh approach.

Given the County will probably be faced with several ongoing investigations, hopefully a Federal Grand Jury type, anyone who's there needs to be ready to cooperate, not castigate, delay and obfuscate.

Keith represents those currently in control and Sally Bell represents those who might ride a roller coaster.

[RecycleMichael]

I am sorry wrinkle, but I must disagree.

You can't simply label these two as inside and outside. That is not fair to either one of them.

I am sure that Sally Bell has many other strengths than "she don't know nobody". I am equally sure that Karen Keith has many other strengths than "rich people like her."

For you to simplify the race between the two like that makes you a simpleton back.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I have a problem with her saying "Let's throw open the books..." about Big Splash and the fairgrounds operations while refusing to let us see her books.

Why does she refuse to let us see the business plan that she submitted to the Expo Square board? It is one of the only documents that she ever had with a public authority and she refuses to let us see it. Is she embarassed by her business plan? Is the amusement park business so top secret that hundreds of us will take it and open up our own amusement parks?

How can she be the candidate for openness if she won't be open about her own documents?

A Business Plan and "The Books" aren't the same thing. In particular, and in this case, the books are the County's, not Bell's or Big Splash.

The reason Randi Miller demanded a business plan from Bell's, IMO, was for exactly what it was, a Business Plan for running an ammusement park, so the Murphy's could extract one that works.

Glad to help you get it straight.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I am sorry wrinkle, but I must disagree.

You can't simply label these two as inside and outside. That is not fair to either one of them.

I am sure that Sally Bell has many other strengths than "she don't know nobody". I am equally sure that Karen Keith has many other strengths than "rich people like her."

For you to simplify the race between the two like that makes you a simpleton back.

Oh, but it is really pretty much that simple.

You're using comparisons I did not make, however.