Homeless Hi-Rise at Admiral and Yale

[AMP]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19980820/ai_n10122004

These replaced the old Osage Hills Apartments which were the old style low income housing.  

These units are fairly decent, and look much better than the old Osage Hills Brick Box flat roof units they replaced.  

Set next to the Golf Course, the view from the patio rivals residental units costing tens of thousands more in other locations.

http://www.tempe.gov/arts/exhibitions/files/Vihel/Housing/osage.pdf

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You know Bear, its not that I or others around here don't know that there is some truth to your rantings. Its that you do nothing but talk, talk, talk. Do something rather than just continuuing to denigrate our local structure!

If you could get elected or appointed to a meaningful slot in the structure and start to effect change instead of complain about the status quo, I for one would follow along regardless of your party affiliation. Same goes for AA. Easy to make fun and criticize but harder to actually do something.

But something tells me you've tried that and were rebuffed and now you feel obligated to educate and warn the rest of us. Instead you end up floundering in the surf yelling about how dangerous water is.

For me your low point was to call Eagleton the Water Carrier for the Mayor (at least you didn't call him the waterboy). He is anything but that, he simply had a different perspective than you and made a different decision. He is the outside of the box councilor you should be defending.

I read about how the city of Tulsa basically stole the water rights of Spavinaw from the tribe that owned them. When city leaders came across resistance they went to the state and used the system to validate/justify their theft. Indians usually lost back then (no casinos to fund good representation). That was over 80 years ago. Now we are in the process of further limiting adjacent landowners rights on Spavinaw Creek to protect our water quality and once again there is resistance. We will win this one too. My point is that you may have misjudged just what our republic is and has been for a long time. And its like this at all levels all over the country. Do something about it. Write a book, make a movie, run for office...something.

Hint:

How do you KNOW that I'm not already holding local elective office, or sitting on one of our many facile Boards, Authorities, or Commissions?

I don't. I can only surmise. However, I think you may have held an elected position in the past and are too smart to divulge that info. Or you are closely allied with current or former office holders and know where the bones are buried.

If you were sitting on one of these unelected entities and weren't raising hell over their conflicts, elitism and incompetence then you are no better than them.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Friendly Bear... You need to run for Mayor or City Council.

While you are weighing your options.... Please get back on your meds and try to make your Doctor appointments.

[]

I really appreciate your show of support.

What kind of meds do you recommend for me?

How about:  Viagra.

Bend over?

Now Bear.... Some of your latent Freudian tendencies are peeking through...

You remember changing your name from Uranus to Friendly Bear... That was a positive step.

I am not familiar with your med list.. I imagine something for High Anxiety...

By the way I was serious that you should run for office..

[}:)]

We talking Uranus.

Not mine.

[]

And, like I told Waterboy, hold do you KNOW I don't already hold elective office?

Roscoe, is that you?

Daddy??

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You know Bear, its not that I or others around here don't know that there is some truth to your rantings. Its that you do nothing but talk, talk, talk. Do something rather than just continuuing to denigrate our local structure!

If you could get elected or appointed to a meaningful slot in the structure and start to effect change instead of complain about the status quo, I for one would follow along regardless of your party affiliation. Same goes for AA. Easy to make fun and criticize but harder to actually do something.

But something tells me you've tried that and were rebuffed and now you feel obligated to educate and warn the rest of us. Instead you end up floundering in the surf yelling about how dangerous water is.

For me your low point was to call Eagleton the Water Carrier for the Mayor (at least you didn't call him the waterboy). He is anything but that, he simply had a different perspective than you and made a different decision. He is the outside of the box councilor you should be defending.

I read about how the city of Tulsa basically stole the water rights of Spavinaw from the tribe that owned them. When city leaders came across resistance they went to the state and used the system to validate/justify their theft. Indians usually lost back then (no casinos to fund good representation). That was over 80 years ago. Now we are in the process of further limiting adjacent landowners rights on Spavinaw Creek to protect our water quality and once again there is resistance. We will win this one too. My point is that you may have misjudged just what our republic is and has been for a long time. And its like this at all levels all over the country. Do something about it. Write a book, make a movie, run for office...something.

Hint:

How do you KNOW that I'm not already holding local elective office, or sitting on one of our many facile Boards, Authorities, or Commissions?

I don't. I can only surmise. However, I think you may have held an elected position in the past and are too smart to divulge that info. Or you are closely allied with current or former office holders and know where the bones are buried.

If you were sitting on one of these unelected entities and weren't raising hell over their conflicts, elitism and incompetence then you are no better than them.

Someone of the calibre of an outsider like Michael Bates would be well-suited to an important local board or authority, such as TAIT, River Parks, TMUA, THA, TMAPC, BOA, etc.

However, I think the likelihood of a reformer of his calibre actually being appointed is about as likely as an Auschwitz survivor shouting "Heil Hitler".

Nil.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I don't like either one of them. I voted for Barnes and even though I criticized Roscoe, I liked him. Call them to task. But come on. Is everything related to the T-Town Oligarchy, the Bananna Republic of Tulsa, Da Mare's cronyism, blah, blah, blah? These two never let up.

If we just keep electing bumpkins then tearing away at them with recalls, lawsuits, name calling and smears will we ever get anything done around here? Isn't that what FB and his buddies want?

Is it possible that people just disagree and are not part of a conspiracy to carry water for the mayor and Kaisers minions? And what kind of class warfare criticizes a part time councilor for working in a garage and still representing his district. If he was practicing law like others would that be okay?

Geez.

The local ruling Power Oligarchy wants to control at least six of nine city councilors, and also the Office of the Mayor.

They briefly lost that control back in 2004, with the election of the Gang of Five.

And, brother, did they ever HOWL!

It's about control of the local levers of power, which gives them control of the funding Honey Pots:  TAIT, TMUA, TDA, THA, etc.

They use their Money to get Power.  And, Power to protect their Money.

Simple, really.

So simple it plum evades me.

Just saying this stuff over and over doesn't make it true. I'll make this assertion though. Take off all the members of these boards and authorities that you think are members of the oligarchy or toadies for them and replace them with your hand picked toadies. Within a year they'll resemble the old boards and authorities. We'll have a new person espousing stories of a new oligarchy.

Your personality is same as the current administration. Never give an opponent an even break. Reward your supporters and punish dissenters (enemies). Don't let logic or the law get in the way.

Its very simple really.

The LAW?  There is NO law in a Banana Republic.

The law is what a crony judge of the local ruling power elite SAYS is the law.
 
I refer you to the Poster Boy of Judicial Cronyism:

Dear Judge Jane Wiseman.  

Promoted from Tulsa District Judge to Oklahoma State Court of Appeals as a reward for her FIVE minutes of deliberation on the Log-Rolled Vision 2025 ballot lawsuit, filed by Gary Richardson on behalf of former city councilor and personna non grata Todd Houston.

And, I'd be happy to vote for a real Reformer on Tulsa City Council, whether Democrat or Republican.  

However, we're unlikely to ever again see a majority of the city council comprised of Reformers.

TOO dangerous for the local ruling Power Oligarchy.

Too many skeletons buried in the various city boards, authorities, and commissions.

Too many sweet-heart deals with a certain two  local banks, and their sole-sourced municipal bond underwriting deals.

Too many sweet-heart deals with the favored local construction company cabal, their connected sub-contractor cronies, and their sole-sourced construction projects.  With their allied legions of certain connected attorneys, architects, engineers, and PR personnel.

Reform?

Not very likely.

Welcome to the Banana Republic of Tulsa!

[:O]

You've been humiliated on the Wiseman issue before.

Why bring it up?

Do you cry at night thinking about the fact you are a clueless fool?

Wiseman is one of the best judges you could ever have.  Everyone I know in the legal community respects her.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

But, please, keep making stuff up.

Who needs facts and honest discussion when you have Friendly Bear?

[}:)]

[cks511]

A little CYA just hit the news:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080814_296_Anew571050

[Gold]

Back on the topic . . .

I live west of 18th and Boulder, or so.  We have some sort of subsdized/ transient housing around the corner in a really terrible building that needs to be torn down.  There are also another couple of similar housing situations described in a recent blog by Wayne Green, http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/blogs/weblog.aspx?column_id=30#2881.  

Despite the fact we have some low income families and an occaisional panhandler or transient, the value of real estate in that neighborhood keeps going up.  My home is worth 33% more than when I bought it nine years ago.  There are million dollar homes in the area (I saw the closing amount on one recently).  The neighborhood has maintained all of its charm.

The blowhard/tinfoil hat crowd is really blowing this out of proportion.

[carltonplace]

Its called diversity. The people against this project seem to be projecting some thinly veiled bias or prejudice against their fellow humans.

[tshane250]

People are just afraid of what they know little about, plain and simple.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

Its called diversity. The people against this project seem to be projecting some thinly veiled bias or prejudice against their fellow humans.

Interesting point.  How someone at Admiral and Yale gets their panties in a wad over diversity is beyond me.  That's one of the most diverse parts of the city.  If anyone has doubts, visit Rogers High School any day of the week.  

It's not like their moving tent city to the neighborhood.

Beyond that, the Y needs to go.  If we keep people living there, we subject them to the risk of a terrible fire.  Just a thought that seems to get lost in this discussion.

[carltonplace]

I was a Roper!

[Gold]

That's such a beautiful building.  I DVR'd Rumblefish the other night -- hadn't seen it in awhile.  Forgot that they walk through the front of the school in it.

Like a lot of things that get blown out of proportion in Tulsa, I think the neighbors are taking issue with the law itself, not the interpretation of it.  As far as I can tell, appropriate notice was given and the project is legal.  The web site that sprung up really says a lot about the motives of the noisemakers on this one.  

Call the group who initiated the project arrogant if you want, I call it leadership.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I was a Roper!

Me too.

Class of 1976

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by tshane250

People are just afraid of what they know little about, plain and simple.

Tshane, good point.

What is it they say?  "A lack of education leads to ignorance"?  Ignorance leads to ignorant comments from the looks of things.

But some of the comments I've read here and elsewhere does border on sheer ignorant prejudice of mental health issues and the people they affect.

I don't mention it much for no other reason than it's seldom relevant in my daily conversation, but I've got a relative who lives in a group home environment in Bethany (OKC).  It's a converted Howard Johnson's motel and it houses people with mental illness, some veterans, and people with substance abuse issues on their way back up from bottom.  

Honestly, it's not unlike a partial cross-section of any neighborhood or apartment complex in the Tulsa area.  Even the nicest areas have people with mental illness or who have suffered (or are still suffering) from substance abuse, near homelessness at some point or being destitute.

My relative is a vet and suffers from Schizophrenia.  Most days he's pretty lucid, but he is not capable of holding down any sort of employment.  He goes to the Vet center in OKC most days.  He's harmless and probably one of my favorite extended family members.  Most other people who live there are just as harmless and might go so far as to walk over to some of the fast food places in the area to eat, but generally, they stay out of the residential area a block away other than taking walks in the morning or afternoon.

Gold, you pretty much backed up my assertion of the "Beirut" looking building down at 18th & Boulder not affecting the neighborhood negatively.

The people around Admiral and Yale need to consider this a nice gift to the landscape.  I seriously doubt they will even notice their new neighbors.  This isn't like putting in a prison pre-release center, a sexual preditor lock-up, or a bunch of strip clubs.  I really do fail to see how this will hurt property values.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Gold


Beyond that, the Y needs to go.  If we keep people living there, we subject them to the risk of a terrible fire.  Just a thought that seems to get lost in this discussion.

Install sprinklers, problem solved.