Russia Invades Georgia, Levels Cities

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Chris

Are we really sending all these ships? I can't find anything online that doesn't source from the Canadian guy.

Oil is falling in price lately, the elections coming up...a well-timed air bombardment of Iran would be just the thing to bring oil back up, help rig the election, create a general diversion from other important issues....six in the Armada story yesterday.....two here  http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104233164&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull  Whichever, it sounds like the real thing is coming down. Of course I've said that before, so hopefully I'm wrong again.

[cannon_fodder]

In other words FOTD, the Russian media is correct and all the Western media's, China, and other Asian media's are wrong.  Has that happened before in history?

quote:FOTD made up that
The thing is, Georgia has been building it's military faster than any country on the planet, and we've been paying for that. We are already in up to our necks.

Really?  Because that's not what Jane's defense, Global Firepower, or Global Security says.  They have been working hard to beef up their military.  But that would be like saying you're you've been putting extra water in your pool so you can take on the Atlantic ocean.  I listed assets above, cite better sources if you got 'em .

Other than his Lord majesty Prince of Scottland , Lord of Sterling and Empirial ruler of Canada I haven't seen much on this.  And he doesn't see fit to give any sources.  I am the Holy Roman Emperor (a totle that is no longer used) and Goddess of Lesbos (a title that never existed), and I say it's not true.  I outrank him.

I find it humorous that you are willing to believe ANY source you can find if it suits your need.   The US starts a war in Georgia by using Ukraine so Russia will crush our ally so that we can send ships to the gulf and then Russia will allow us to bomb Iran.  Tadaaa!  Step 3.  Profit.

AGAIN, please run off and start a conspiracy thread if you wish.  I appreciate your idea, but with the Grand Dragon as the primary source and the only real notion being that we have 2 carriers on the way to the gulf, it remains a far fetched theory (you will recall we had 5 Carriers in the gulf not long ago for an exercise, as well as on other occasions and failed to invade).  

I'd also be curious on how he knows where all the US battle groups are.  The pentagon only releases areas of operation, no actual deployment locations.

[FOTD]

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/08/07/why-the-pentagon-thinks-attacking-iran-is-a-bad-idea.html

Why the Pentagon Thinks Attacking Iran is a Bad Idea
No one wants a nuclear Iran, but U.S. military leaders worry about the risks and strains of a third war

"An Israeli strike on Iran—with or without U.S. support—would offer all of these risks and more minuses, say senior defense officials. For this reason, in recent meetings in Israel, Mullen "conveyed his less-than-enthusiastic view of an Israeli attack," says a senior military official. Says Riedel, "From an Iranian perspective, Israel would be flying American-made F-15s and F-16s, dropping bombs made in the USA," he adds. "Within the Pentagon, not only do they see the downsides, they tend to think that if someone's going to do this, they don't want to see it outsourced to another air force."

Could we be setting a screen for Israel ala Syria?

Alright.....I never believe their smokescreens....RIP Anthony Russo!

[cannon_fodder]

FOTD, go start an Iran thread if you want.  It is not relevant here.
- - -

quote:NEW YORK, Aug. 10 -- Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told the United States on Sunday that Georgia's democratically elected president must step down in order to settle the military conflict between the two countries, according to the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/10/AR2008081002311.html?hpid=topnews

If goes on to say:

quote:The meeting quickly degenerated into a quarrel between the U.S. and Russian envoys that recalled some of the most contentious U.N. spats between the United States and the Soviet Union.

So we are either putting on a hell of an act, or  you're wrong (again).

The Russians made the same arguments you made.  1) We have no business to complain about an invasion and civilian deaths, 2) they are after oil as much as we were in Iraq and 3) we toppled a government, so can they.  never mind the fact that they carpet bombed populated cities when we sued smart bombs nor that Saddam was a war criminal and a  dictator.  Details (but fair game to point out, I might add).

Anyway, it does not look good.  They may go ahead and just take the entire country.  OR, they are setting it up so anything short of that is a relief.  I'll stand by my earlier prediction (which includes no secret pact with Russia for the USA to attack Iran).

[FOTD]

No. No secret pact.

Putin is the world's richest man aquiring more assets, the gangster. That's the easy part.

Tit for tat....

[cannon_fodder]

Around 11am local time Russia's defense minster told Gordon Brown they would not be expanding their offensive.  Around 1pm local time CNN and the Gaurdian reported Russian tanks and columns in Gori and a new front near the Black Sea.

Russia's "not a navy blockade" has sunk a Georgian supply ship on it's way to port (Russia reports the ship attacked them).

France send an envoy to Georgia, Russia bombed the airport he landed at 2 hours before he touched down.

Russia has been attacking Georgia's internet and government servers for weeks:
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/georgia-under-o.html
- - -

I see no sign of them letting up, each new offensive is needed to "protect Russian peacekeepers."  Also worth noting that the world and Russian media only cares what Putin has to say.  He's definitely still the man.

The road to Georgia's capital:


Sun Article (good pictures, graphics of what their armies are purported to have. I WAY over estimated Georgia by these figures):
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1540544.ece

Not good.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

SHORTER VERSION!
Bush and Putin weren't sitting at the Olympic games for nothing. They were talking about war. Putin said okay...bomb Iran and we will bomb Georgia. They had their talks the night of the Olympic games. Russia gets the Georgia oil, and the US gets the Iran oil. China's happy because China just owns us, and all the oil in Africa they want.

 U.S. Naval Armada Heads For Iran

http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html


Something funny going on.....like a couple of mobsters, Putin and Cheney....

"bomb Iran and we will bomb Georgia."

Wow, you saw Putin mouth that to Bush at the opening ceremonies too?  I think I also caught "Laura looks hot, want a snort of Wodka?"

[FOTD]

NO, I saw, "You bombed Georgia, then we get to bomb Iran...". Besides, that lines up more with Dumbya's personality disorder.[}:)]

[we vs us]

If the Iraq War wasn't the first petrowar of the new millenium, I hereby nominate this one as the runner up. We're gonna see much more of this kind of thing in the decades to come. And I also think we're going to see more Putins and Chavezes rather than less.  I mean, heck, give an ex-military guy the ultimate weapon (the key to the oil spigot) and see how they react.  

[cannon_fodder]

Wevus, no doubt the Iraq war was the first petro war.  I don't think it was a 'war for oil' in the same manner as AOX, but certainly without the oil in the region we wouldn't give two rats asses about stability nor the underlying causes to begin with (before Kuwait we were friends, BUT FOR the invasion of Kuwait Gulf II never would have happened).

[cannon_fodder]

To protect it's peacekeeping forces Russia has now engaged a full scale ground invasion:

quote:The Kremlin said that its actions since then have been intended to strike at Georgian military forces that fired on its peacekeeping troops in South Ossetia and that it did not intend a broader offensive deeper into Georgia.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Georgia-overrun-Russian-troops-scale-ground-invasion-begins.html

Russia took Gori (deeper inside Georgia), now according to several sources (Russia denied this earlier today and claimed they remain in the break away areas).  An area well outside of South Ossetia.  Some reports have Russian tanks entering the city and then withdrawing, others say it's occupied.

Russia has also taken Senaki to the West, locking up the Western province and Georgia's access to the sea - not even connected to Ossetia.  Russia has called for a surrender of the Western province of Abkhazia  as Russian tanks rolled across the border checkpoints (remember this is a limited incursion in South Ossetia to protect peace keepers).  It admits to having 10,000 troops and more than 350 pieces of armor in Abkhazia.

quote:"If the Georgian troops don't take advantage of this opportunity, then an operation to eliminate them will begin," the minister said.

This region not related to the apparent cause of the invasion, but if Georgia doesn't pull it's army out of the Georgian territory Russia will surround and kill them all.  Makes sense.

quote:The Russian prime minister [Putin] rejected calls from Georgia for a ceasefire and declared that his country would pursue its mission to its 'logical conclusion'.

Funny how Putin is the one calling all the shots and getting all the press.  Who was the guy that's 'really in charge' now?  

Russia has said they will sign a cease fire if Georgia leaves Ossetia and signs an accord never to enter it with military again, essentially ceeding it to the Russians.

quote:Two senior Western officials said that it was unclear whether Russia intended a full invasion of Georgia but that its aims could go as far as destroying its armed forces or overthrowing  Saakashvili.

"They seem to have gone beyond the logical stopping point," one senior Western diplomat said, speaking on condition of anonymity under normal diplomatic protocol.

- - -


Russia, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Iran...  GREAT reasons to kick the oil habit.

[cannon_fodder]

An anonymous US source in the Pentagon says they have no evidence Gori is occupied.  It was apparently shelled and advanced on, weather the Georgians pulled out or were forced out or returned... is a matter of debate.

The article states the US was surprised by the response from Russia.

quote: That the two countries were on a collision course was no surprise to anyone, but the devastating Russian response was not expected, officials said.

"We were tracking it earlier in that week and we knew that things were escalating," said a military official, who asked not to be identified. "I can tell you it moved quicker than we anticipated that first day."

I'm trying to take what Georgia says and corroborate it with CNN reporters (who are there) or others.  Though, I admit, I believe than more than the Russians.  I see Russia losing far more than gaining here, they were a mildly annoying growingly totalitarian state that had open relations with Europe... I'm guessing the general opinion and relations chill considerably.

[Conan71]

Now for the really important and relevant stuff, CF.

What's this going to do to the price of 7.62 x 39 ammo and AK-47's?

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

An anonymous US source in the Pentagon says they have no evidence Gori is occupied.  It was apparently shelled and advanced on, weather the Georgians pulled out or were forced out or returned... is a matter of debate.

The article states the US was surprised by the response from Russia.

quote: That the two countries were on a collision course was no surprise to anyone, but the devastating Russian response was not expected, officials said.

"We were tracking it earlier in that week and we knew that things were escalating," said a military official, who asked not to be identified. "I can tell you it moved quicker than we anticipated that first day."

I'm trying to take what Georgia says and corroborate it with CNN reporters (who are there) or others.  Though, I admit, I believe than more than the Russians.  I see Russia losing far more than gaining here, they were a mildly annoying growingly totalitarian state that had open relations with Europe... I'm guessing the general opinion and relations chill considerably.

Nah. Russia's growing, resourceful, and getting richer while Europe and the west go sideways. Europe will still need Russia more than Russia needs the westies even after this short Pipeline War. The mobsters are in control. Sharp move on the part of the Russians. No surprise that they are master strategists: Chess is their national game.

What the hell is McCain trying to portray? Perhaps our president, "who has looked into Putin's soul" can provide some insight into how a dry drunk gets bluffed?

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Now for the really important and relevant stuff, CF.

What's this going to do to the price of 7.62 x 39 ammo and AK-47's?

Nothing. This war is over. Goliath won while giving our president the finger.