The future of mass transit in Tulsa

[joiei]

In the NYT, they are talking about how streetcars are making a comeback in some 40 American cities.  Streetcars would seem to be much more flexible to get to areas that need mass transit service.  They do not rely on existing commercial railroad tracks which have to give preference to the trains that use them.  

I lived in Portland before the new streetcar system and have since visited,  the streetcars are a vast improvement, not perfect, but much better than what they had which was a bus system that was only a bit better than what we have now.  

I am just not all that enamored of using the existing tracks.  I see the trains stopped or slow moving for periods of time along the BA and wonder to myself, how  would that help move people in an efficient manner from Broken Arrow to Tulsa if they can't get there.  

Just my pondering the question of the best and most efficient mass transit for our region.  And it really does need to be a regional system, not just a single line from downtown to BA.

[dsjeffries]

Interesting article.  I like the idea of streetcars, but I don't think any form of mass transit should preclude another.  Why not have streetcars and light rail and buses and...? IMO, multimodal mass transit is the best idea to consider.

Notice how it'll take around $130 million to implement Cincinnati's system, while it will take $2 billion to bring Tulsa's streets up to an acceptable level?

[Double A]

How about teleportation for the future of mass transit?[] Beam me up, Scotty.[]

[Red Arrow]

Lots of info on streetcars and other light rail at www.lightrailnow.org

Enjoy

[PonderInc]

I think that any commuter rail that would utilize existing rail ROW would have to build parallel lines next to the existing.  It wouldn't work if you had to wait for all the freight trains that are often stopped or moving slowly in and around downtown.  The only place this seems like a problem would be those lines that run down the skinny center of the BA Expresway.  Unless you gave up a lane of highway...which would probably work since fewer people would be on the road...

[T-TownMike]

Lightrail should work in concert with other forms of mass transit, but sadly I don't think Tulsans have the stones to support anything, that makes them think past a year's time.

[PonderInc]

I've now been to two PLANiTULSA workshops (one as an individual participant, and one as a facilitator).  There were 500 people at each event.  I'm pretty sure that just about every table was including some form of transit in their plans for Tulsa.  

Whether it's bus rapid transit (BRT) or rail, there seems to be a strong agreement among people that we need alternatives to driving cars.  (I can only guess that the recent high gas prices were illuminating to a lot of folks....)  

Some groups used existing rail right-of-ways with plans to connect Tulsa to the burbs.  Others envisioned BRT along major arterials in town.  Others talked about a combination of both.

Of course, the people who are interested in planning for Tulsa's future are probably more forward-thinking than the average citizen who stayed home.  So there's probably a bias.  But overall, I was amazed at the consensus that people wanted to see more transit options.  

By the way, there will be a future public workshop dedicated solely to transit.  The date is TBA, but I think it's going to be sometime in February.

[Renaissance]

Now is as good a time as any to remind everyone that a study 18 months ago by Tulsa Transit concluded that we could have a commuter rail system in place from Broken Arrow to downtown Tulsa for less than the cost of the stadium development.

http://www.tulsatransit.org/news-info/commuter-rail-study/

But let's not include any of this in a bloated streets package.  That would be heresy.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Now is as good a time as any to remind everyone that a study 18 months ago by Tulsa Transit concluded that we could have a commuter rail system in place from Broken Arrow to downtown Tulsa for less than the cost of the stadium development.

http://www.tulsatransit.org/news-info/commuter-rail-study/

But let's not include any of this in a bloated streets package.  That would be heresy.

If the bulk of business done in this city (read that as jobs) was downtown as it is in a lot of the cities who have successful mass transit (SF, Chicago, NY, etc) then it might be viable.  Problem is that we have several different areas with large worker bases (61st/Yale, Cityplex, 21st uptown, Cherry Street)

If you ignore those people feel alienated and also then feel the need to try and find work downtown, which really isn't being realistic.

Cities like Houston are making light rail work because their sprawl is MASSIVE.  I lived there for three years..another reason why it works is because the employment centers hug the freeways, unlike here.

[Renaissance]

Go ahead and read the proposal to see that it's a viable, minimal system designed for commuters to downtown and the hospital districts of midtown.

Bet the folks complaining about the traffic yesterday would have been well served by a park and ride commuter system.

Unfortunately, our city planners are too busy drawing up "starter lines" from one nonexistent development to another.  (pardon my irksomeness but it's really getting old.)

[cmoreno]

quote: just about every table was including some form of transit in their plans for Tulsa

i saw the same thing today.
yet i heard from someone today that tulsa transit just eliminated service to ORU, 'round the 71st st. area.  

i wonder if there's a way to find out why this decision was made, and how tulsa transit / incog really does determine where more bus lines / mass transit services (park & ride, etc.) are needed.  ...it'd seem to me that if you wanted to relieve congestion, help roads last longer, eliminate the need to widen roads, help people save on gas, cut emmissions and keep tulsa on the clean air list, you'd be INCREASING public transportation in this area (...think of how much commuter traffic clogs up the 71st and riverside area every weekday afternoon), not cutting it out.

[sgrizzle]

The Blind Lawyer at my table stated some statistics that ridership is up 30% over 5 years from now but service is down 30%.

[Double A]

I'd like to see Tulsa get Amtrak service before light rail.

[PonderInc]

Since Amtrak is outside the scope of the Comp Plan, I replied in "Development" on an existing Amtrak thread.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=2&TOPIC_ID=10149#157472

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Since Amtrak is outside the scope of the Comp Plan, I replied in "Development" on an existing Amtrak thread.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=2&TOPIC_ID=10149#157472

Isn't that special.