Drillers Deadline Today (again)

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael


The architects are the same ones building Yankee stadium. They are the "Pelli" of the baseball stadium designers.

They're also the same ones that built the $32 million park in Northwest Arkansas.

My wife's car came from an infinity dealer for about $6,000. Based on your assumption, every car in the lot should be about $6,000.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael


The architects are the same ones building Yankee stadium. They are the "Pelli" of the baseball stadium designers.

They're also the same ones that built the $32 million park in Northwest Arkansas.

My concern with HOK is that they're not the "Pelli," they're the "big box store" of stadium designers.  I think we chose them a) because of lack of imagination, and b) because we were in a huge hurry.  We'll get a first rate stadium, but it will be cookie-cutter HOK design with some "local charm" tacked on the exterior if we're lucky.  That's fine and it will be lovely, but it won't be unique to Tulsa.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:

Has anyone else bothered to read the "Trust Document", if so, could someone please help me understand where exactly the boundary line for the "Stadium Trust" is...?

Possibly a Realtor or Attorney... ? ?  

Neither here, but I do know the citizens of Tulsa CAN file suite against ANY Councilor, personally, who votes to approve the Trust Agreement in its' current form. THAT would be breach of duty by any measure.

Personally, I think the ballpark should be entrusted to the Tulsa Public Facilities Authority, as is most other public buildings. Let them bid out the construction and management/operations, similar to the arena. As for the fringe land, let the market and our EDC work it out, with some zoning to effect purpose.

Leave the dynasty to fend for themselves.
Public contracts for monopolistic domain of ALL development around the ballpark is just flat uncalled for, and may be illegal as written with a benefactor named but contracted with no benefits.

They might as well make the changes now since it will likely be tied up in court for several years if they don't. That would mean no ballpark for quite awhile.

Thanks..

The reason I said Realtor..... the wording of the "Trust" paper is such that all property, other than City owned, within the defined area would have an easement attached to the abstract of Deed.

If I am wrong please correct me. The "Trust" paper, as it stands,  creates an item that pertains  to the ownership of property that could be affected by the terms of the "Trust".

There must be a boundary, or some language, that limits the property that may or may not be affected. If not, you may as well be in a third world country, where the bottom line of ownership of anything is such that you own it unless the Government wants it.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd
My concern with HOK is that they're not the "Pelli," they're the "big box store" of stadium designers.  I think we chose them a) because of lack of imagination, and b) because we were in a huge hurry.  We'll get a first rate stadium, but it will be cookie-cutter HOK design with some "local charm" tacked on the exterior if we're lucky.  That's fine and it will be lovely, but it won't be unique to Tulsa.

BS Floyd. You obviously have a bias here...

They have an incredible portfolio of unique designs.

Look here for sports stadiums...

http://www.hoksport.com/projects/index.html

Look here for minor leagues ballparks...

http://www.hoksport.com/projects/portfolio_milb_all.html

[Renaissance]

Not biased--excited to have a ballpark at all--but just expressing my opinion that the choice of HOK doesn't show much imagination or out of the box thinking by whoever is planning this thing.  I think if you Google "minor league ballpark architects," HOK is the first (and only) one to come up.  I sure haven't seen any competing designs; you'd think that we might get to compare different plans first--maybe even poll various renderings and involve the public a little more.  Did they look local?  I very much doubt it, given the necessary rush to put this project together.

I didn't say HOK wouldn't bring us a first-rate stadium.  It's just that I am concerned their design will not be unique and will fail to incorporate local elements.  It will be a stadium that could be in Anyminorleaguetown, USA, because they've built half of them, apparently.  If you were HOK, would you start all over if you didn't have to?  No.  You would take the basic design you used in Arkansas, Albequerque, Akron and San Antonio, tweak it up to fit the site requirements, put some special brickwork or signage on it, collect your fee, and call it a project.

I could be wrong.  But call me when they incorporate Art Deco into the stadium design....

[MDepr2007]

We know this one is out


This would be nice to have a grassy area

[RecycleMichael]

I think you will be pleased with the final product, Floyd. I will buy you a ticket and a beer at the first game I see you at and I bet you will say you underestimated the design team.

Baseball fields are fairly rigid. The bases are always ninety feet apart and the pitching rubber is always 60'6" from home. But they keys are how to incorporate the foul areas and the outfield fences. Too much foul area between the bases means more easy outs, shorter games and less souvenirs for the fans. Too high of fences or gaps in the outfield design really affect the outcomes of games as well.

From the fans perspective, luxury boxes will attract a whole different customer for the Drillers. These boxes, especially on day games, will be the "in" place to have a small staff meeting or entertain some clients.

The old ballpark is simple, utilitarian and sparse. The new ballpark will be exciting, beautiful and plush. It is going to be great.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I think you will be pleased with the final product, Floyd. I will buy you a ticket and a beer at the first game I see you at and I bet you will say you underestimated the design team.

Baseball fields are fairly rigid. The bases are always ninety feet apart and the pitching rubber is always 60'6" from home. But they keys are how to incorporate the foul areas and the outfield fences. Too much foul area between the bases means more easy outs, shorter games and less souvenirs for the fans. Too high of fences or gaps in the outfield design really affect the outcomes of games as well.

From the fans perspective, luxury boxes will attract a whole different customer for the Drillers. These boxes, especially on day games, will be the "in" place to have a small staff meeting or entertain some clients.

The old ballpark is simple, utilitarian and sparse. The new ballpark will be exciting, beautiful and plush. It is going to be great.

How do you know the new ballpark will be "beautiful and plush"? Have you seen plans? Have you seen a budget? Will the City Council or the public get to see any of this before the Council votes on the trust indenture?

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

As far as I know, TPFA's facilities were paid for entirely with public funds, the ballpark is not.

As I understood things, those were 'donations'.
Or, did you mean it's a 'pay-to-play' deal?

Besides, I think the argument can be made, particularly with the construct of the current Trust Agreement, that the IDL tax will pay the $30 million ($25m + $5m from Drillers) cost of the ballpark, with the 'donors' $30m really being used for surrounding development.

For getting prime and solitary rights to all peripheral development, they also get to own and run the ballpark. And, the current Trust Agreement really has NO LIMITATIONS on when, where or how much land they can buy, sell, own, operate. It's not even limited to the IDL. For that matter, not even the City limits.

They could buy a Major League Team in Kansas City if they can find a way to word it as appropriate. It wouldn't even need be a baseball team. Heck, they could buy Busch stadium or your house if they wanted the way it's worded.

No comment.

[MDepr2007]

Trust the force , Michael. []

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates
How do you know the new ballpark will be "beautiful and plush"? Have you seen plans? Have you seen a budget? Will the City Council or the public get to see any of this before the Council votes on the trust indenture?

Yes. There have been many drawings done. They were printed in the TulsaWorld. I have also talked to the Drillers management about the new park on many occassions.

I have not seen a budget. I don't know what the councilors have seen.

[Wrinkle]

I say we give the donors' money back, get bids on a $30 million ballpark budget, owned by Tulsans via TPFA, and leave the rest to EDC and the market.

...yeah, that's the ticket.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

I say we give the donors' money back, get bids on a $30 million ballpark budget, owned by Tulsans via TPFA, and leave the rest to EDC and the market.

...yeah, that's the ticket.

Could also take the Brady TIF package, expand it to include the entire stadium development district, and put the proceeds towards ending the IDL BID as early as possible.

[TulsaSooner]

We must be the free money hatingest city in the country.

[]

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

We must be the free money hatingest city in the country.

[]

If you call the terms of the "Trust" document free...........Seek help now..

Do not pass go and do not drive or operate machinery.