Devon Tower in OKC Unveiled

[Hometown]

I left Tulsa in '75.  The exodus of oil headquarters was just picking up steam.  The mantra pushed by the TulsaWorld was, "focus on diversification."  There has never been a meaningful effort to staunch the flow of oil business out of Tulsa.

Think about that.  Think about all the towns that have fought to keep their business.  Think about Tulsa not fighting to keep her principal industry.  Then ask yourself why.

I don't know the answer to that question.  

My best guess is that leadership and ruling families over time have had conflicts of interest and saw personal gain through this industry shift.  Their loyalty was to themselves not to Tulsa.

As you say Bates, this is a topic in itself but I do believe there is a direct correlation between this scenario and the near death of our downtown and a general decline in Tulsa.

While we have focused on giving Tulsa, especially downtown Tulsa, a public-financed shot in the arm, the goal must be to attract private enterprise.  And I suggest that focusing on what is still our strength, the energy industry, makes sense.

Now, building towers with human scale at street level:  This has been an unquestioned truth among architects for some time now.  So they must be out there.  But I am hard pressed to come up with a good example.

[grahambino]

I have loved living in Tulsa the past couple years.  I feel I enjoy a pretty high quality of life and want to see Tulsa succeed.  Tulsa has so much potential and its just languishing.  It takes leadership to get stuff done and not pandering to the lowest common denominator, mini Grover Norquists that have infested this city & state.

OKC's revival and resurgence and consequent passing of Tulsa, can be traced directly back to the early 90s when MAPS was passed.  You reap what you sow.  A sales tax increase has truly transformed OKC into what it is.  It was not overnight.  Its been what? 17-18 years?
Now, it has culminated w/ the plans of OKC getting the tallest building. Which will also be taller than any building in Dallas. As much as you guys want a corporate benefactor to step up with a 'big name architect' to design a 926' tower downtown.... or adding an extra 300 ft' on top of the BOK tower...seriously?  

That is completely clinging to image & appearances and not having substance to back it up.  Pretty sad that its apparently come to this, but unfortunately I guess it has.

[USRufnex]

Unless you can find some real stats, HT... I'm gonna hafta call BS on the 1975 date... sometimes relying on memories can be a little fuzzy.  Tulsa was still touting itself as the "Oil Capital of the World" through the early 80s until the oil boom became the oil bust in the mid/late 80s... my memories are of a lot of civic hubris in the late 70s and early 80s... Williams Center, Williams Center Forum, new PAC, the Tulsa Roughnecks (of course)... and an infamous full page ad in the Buffalo (NY) News touting..... "T - L S A... the only thing missing is U" [}:)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUVhlSCpA84

I'm not sure what local government alone was supposed to do starting in 1982 to keep the "Oil Capital" moniker from moving to Houston... Houston is a port city, Houston is perfectly positioned on the Gulf of Mexico.... Tulsa has the Port of Catoosa and the Arkansas River...

I had family who worked for the oil industry... also had family who worked for Rockwell/McDonnell-Douglas... all suffered under layoffs at some point or other back in the day...

I don't think the city of Tulsa itself particularly wanted to diversify... it had do diversify after the 80s oil bust.  In fact, if you want to blame anyone for diversifying... heck, look at the kinda stuff  Williams Companies was doing in the 90s...  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19981109/ai_n10123218

And what could local government in Tulsa have done to keep this from happening in 1984?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921502,00.html



I mean, do you really want your city to be taken hostage on a regular basis by this kinda stuff?

Back on topic, Tulsa's skyline is not only larger and taller than the skylines of OKC, Little Rock and Wichita... it's also larger and taller than Buffalo and Rochester, NY...

OKC can build a bigger phallus... Tulsa's already been there and done that... IMO, the new BOk Center is a tribute to that... spend big money on a name architect, and make the arena into a landmark...

Now, Tulsa just needs to concentrate on anything that can keep the "brain drain" at bay... and invest in itself from time to time...



Tulsa will always have something OKC lacks... I think they're called "hills"... []

[Hometown]

Sometimes there's nothing like being here.

Yes, Tulsa enjoyed an oil boom in the 80s.  Yes, the exodus had already started.  And the mantra starting from the early 70s was diversification.  Am I going over to the library today to pour through microfish to find an article from the TulsaWorld to prove something to you?  I admire you, but don't think so ...

[USRufnex]

Just asking for some sort of evidence that Tulsa was diversifying and abandoning the oil industry in the mid-70s... no need to go to the library for microfiche.

I think that Port of Catoosa thingy (1971) has beena pretty good investment...

[swake]

The Devon building looks nice and the base is stunning. The tower is a bit conservative and plain, like something built in the 90s, but overall it's a really good looking building.

It's not at all time for Tulsa to try to build something similar. Downtown's Tulsa's problem isn't that we are missing a 900 foot tower, it's that we have too many under utilized buildings and too many surface parking lots.

While I would love to add 1.9 million square feet of space downtown, I would far rather two or three 17-18 story hotels/condo buildings and then a dozen or so 4-8 floor residential/retail buildings. We have no need for new office space. Even after the Devon tower is added Tulsa will have three million more square feet of office space than Oklahoma City. OKC would have to add three Devon towers to pass Tulsa in total square footage.

The Oklahoma City downtown office occupancy rate is actually lower than Tulsa's. That building is going to blow a massive hole into the commercial leasing health of downtown Oklahoma City, for many, many years. I know the Devon building is not going to be for lease, but all those people moving into that building already take up space in other Oklahoma City buildings. Tulsa's rate was hurt by the 750,000 square foot One Technology Place in 2001 and the Devon building is almost three times the size of our new city hall.

What Tulsa needs to do is to continue to add new hotel space and new residential units and we need to continue to convert our older classic deco office buildings into other uses. We need to at once work to increase the amount of office workers downtown while actually lowering the amount of leasable office space downtown. Once we have an occupancy rate above 90% and have the area have more of a 24 hour population instead of just being a 8-5 office park we can start to talk about another tall tower, but not now.

[FOTD]

And I'd been hoping for a SemRon tower before the big bust.

Swake, by "other uses" for existing buildings the devil in me gathers you mean residential. To get that you need what? The East End needs to be master planned to give central downtown the design by which you mention to grow into a true community.

[carltonplace]

Nice post swake.

If we ever did get a new skyscraper we should put it at Denver and Archer where the county has their jail.

[tshane250]

I personally think Tulsa should be focusing on becoming a cool, hip, funky city the likes of a Portland or an Austin.  The city already has a nice vibe in my opinion, plus it is chock full of gems from the oil days that add to its charm.  Seriously, Tulsa needs to focus on being Tulsa and quit looking to OKC as an example.  The two cities are so different it's not funny.  I think Tulsa is heading in the right direction, but at a slow pace with lots of stumbling.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by tshane250

I think Tulsa is heading in the right direction, but at a slow pace with lots of stumbling.

I agree, but the pace is killing me. I just want so much for the city, and I'm afraid that by the time I see any of it, I'll be too old to enjoy any of it.

I wish I knew something about real estate. If I could build just one residential high rise....

[Hometown]

Swake, I think you've been drinking the same koolaid as everyone else in local government.

You say, "What Tulsa needs to do is to continue to add new hotel space and new residential units and we need to continue to convert our older classic deco office buildings into other uses."

But you are getting the cart before the horse.

Tulsa needs new business.  Good paying business.  Everything else flows from that.

[izmophonik]

I bet they build it before we can develop our river.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Swake, I think you've been drinking the same koolaid as everyone else in local government.

You say, "What Tulsa needs to do is to continue to add new hotel space and new residential units and we need to continue to convert our older classic deco office buildings into other uses."

But you are getting the cart before the horse.

Tulsa needs new business.  Good paying business.  Everything else flows from that.

Kool-aid?  Maybe I am misreading the tea leaves or the astrological impact of a rising moon but I think you are the one drinking the kool-aid. You have message board malaise. Tulsa's poor! There are no jobs! Taxes are too high!

That's all crap.

Let's not sell us short on what Tulsa does do well. We have among the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. We have no housing crisis. Tulsa is a well educated city and has a per-capita income average that is in the top quintile of all metropolitan areas, higher than Dallas or Houston in fact. And that's while we are near the bottom in cost of living. "Good paying jobs" is a nice political campaign sound bite but it's not something that we are lacking. We need better job growth but in my experience in the companies I have worked for the problem with Tulsa isn't in getting jobs to move here, it's with getting people to move here to fill those jobs. I know of a number of very high paying jobs that have left Tulsa because no one would fill the job here.

What we need more than anything is better population growth. Job growth can and will follow more overall growth. To get that population growth we need improved community amenities and improved urban living options to encourage more people to live here. We have great suburban areas and great midtown areas and some outstanding local school districts and private schools. We are what we always wanted to be which is a great city to raise a family. But that's not enough anymore, we need more young people that haven't yet started a family to move here and that means we need to address an urban living option that we are currently badly lacking in.

[MDepr2007]

If Tulsa gets a new highrise, it won't be built downtown. I would look south as whoever builds it would want it to stand out and would go to where the growth is.

[Hometown]

Sweetheart, sometimes very well intended people, who mean no harm, kind of like you, can't see the forest for the trees.  

We all love Tulsa or we wouldn't be hanging out at TulsaNow but Tulsa has many needs, chief among them is a better economy.

I want the big fat skyscraper paid for by oil money and filled up with energy companies and their competitive wages.

Now, if you are going to rant about what I've said try to accurately represent what I have said.  Please.